512bbi vs. 512TR? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

512bbi vs. 512TR?

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by ttn27, Mar 11, 2015.

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  1. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie

    Jan 19, 2014
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    Agreed. Owning both the 365 and the 512 BB, they are both great, but there is no comparison. The 365 BB is still very much undiscovered given its limited numbers. Truly an amazing car in every way. Checks all boxes, period.
     
  2. suicidedoors1964

    suicidedoors1964 Formula Junior

    Oct 2, 2004
    385
    The 512BBi might be the most tame of the Boxer variants from the factory. Though after FoA was done with mine it became an absolute beast. Titanium rods, 512M lightened crank, high compression pistons, Tubi headers/exhaust, and a Newman custom ring and pinion and it is stupid fast.
     
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  3. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    what intake/injection did you use.
     
  4. suicidedoors1964

    suicidedoors1964 Formula Junior

    Oct 2, 2004
    385
    Still using the stock intake and bosch injection will some mods to the WUR. A lot of time was spent porting and polishing the engine. I learned about intake reversion and engine simulation programs.

    More power is waiting to be unlocked once I pony up for a programmable system.

    Though so far my goal has been to keep the stock looking appearance of the engine.

     
  5. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Well when a 365 is 1 mill like a periscopo, then if my BBi is over 500K I will be good, ha.

    Realisticaly though the percieved differences between the boxers is not as large as the differences between the Countaches. The driving experience of the 365 seems a bigger difference than the other two. Stylisticaly they are closer than the differences in Cts. In my eyes the 365 looks a little short in the rear, less balanced proportionaly.
     
  6. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

    Nov 2, 2014
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    Six tailpipes though. That's art. That's where mechanics meet Warhol or Fontana (slashed canvas man). I don't know the alchemy by which certain cars become classics and others forgotten, but art and mechanics are at the heart of it. You can be sure that some of the guys driving the art market, who may well be here on Fchat, are driving this market, and I mean that as a compliment. They have style. The six pipes make it.
    BTW I don't own any BBs so I am not pumping my cars. I own a Testa and a 512M and another V12. Art-wise, a 512M is beauty, even if for the purist, it's a parts bin amend of a TR.
    Sorry but this post was about value, and you can't separate that from art. Luxury is about the irrational, otherwise we'd all be buying...I don't know what.
     
  7. wlanast

    wlanast Formula 3
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    Jan 9, 2007
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    Good comments, Onno. All I can say is, I wish I owned a 365BB. Would I have paid a premium to own one, if I could even find one? Without hesitation!

    Warts/faults and all (no dry sump, clutch, sans front spoiler, et all) I for one can't deny the raw attraction of the very first mid engine Ferrari 12cyl road car. And for that I see justification of the premium, low numbers just increase that differential.

    By the way, my mechanic was buttoning up an E/O on a '79. It is still sporting the original 4 can exhaust. I was struck by how much louder the engine is than my BBi. The induction sound of the carbs at idle (clamshell was off) was surprising. Then I heard the "tick, tick, tick" sound that I thought was valve noise, but turns out the overlap of the cam profile! So cool!

    In the end, I still love the looks of the BBi the best, the more "race/performance" mods in the aero, dry sump, and injection, and especially the dramatic look of the intake runners. Can't have it all! I am a raving fan of each BB variant.
     
  8. F360-1386

    F360-1386 Formula 3

    Oct 8, 2006
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    Markham, ON, Canada
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    51216M
    The so called " super ugly front end 512M" was just sold in an auction over $460K .... that makes it look better now ?? lol
     
  9. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    #59 boxerman, Mar 19, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2015
    Nope still ugly, symtrical wheels that go backwards on one side, rear incongruent with round tail lights, the list goes on.

    To say the styling is amateur hour would be a compliment, well you wonder if they were smoking crack that week.

    Great motor, car drives great, maybe one of the greats to drive, limited prod.


    More ugly than a 25 anniv countach, but those sell cheapest because a lot produced..So I am just guessing that its so abortive looking, so differnt from a tr, that it is its own baby, therefore real limited prod 75 in us, that drives value here.

    My only conclusion from various "value" threads is that non enthusiast collector money has re-entered the car market again. Buyers are purchasing by ticking boxes and buying cars where the boxes are ticked, Iconic brand. rare, classic out of production, never to be produced again, 12 cyl, red, dramatic looks etc. these buyers may have no automotive asthtic taste or undertsanding of the vehicles. Just lok at z8 prices. The funny money is back.

    As we know for a Boxer to hit its 89 value with money depreciation since then, prices have to go to 700k. With new car investor funny money it can happen and fast. Look at thge run in muscle car prices a few years back before it all went pear shaped. The crowd gets excited about the new thing to put money into. Rare Italian supercrars are a bargain when GTO's are 50 mill, and even a 275GTB is 3 mill.


    I say the market can double defore the music stops, just look ar sebring prices, or 993 twin turbos, which are newish and not that rare.

    Ask yourself, where is all the money fleeing europe, moving from stocks going to go? does not take too much to drive the classic car market carzy, after all in the end there really is not that much stock value wise in rare italians out of prod.
     
  10. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    you missed the point of my post, however, thank you for proving one of my statements for me. and btw, dont assume i have not driven the cars i talk about - if i list negative issues on a car it is from personal experience.

    i like all the boxers too. but the very issues you list are the reasons why ferrari evolved the model to the 512bb.
    you may love the 365, and be willing to put up with all of its peculiarities and not call them flaws, but thats what they are and thats why ferrari rectified them.
     
  11. scudF1

    scudF1 F1 Rookie
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    When you open the front and rear clam shells, mouths drop.... How many modern cars tend to do that? Maybe some but nothing like a bbi...
     
  12. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Performance art.
     
  13. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

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    Boxer range is Picasso. Testarossa range is Warhol.
     
  14. scudF1

    scudF1 F1 Rookie
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    +1 Very well said.
     
  15. MoeD

    MoeD Formula 3
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    Well times are always evolving and I'm wondering if w/o Enzo at the helm, things are still Great, but not as he would've done

    Anyway- Both are strong statements, albeit different in their representation
     
  16. jzihla

    jzihla Karting

    Mar 26, 2010
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  17. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
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    Sep 25, 2002
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    #67 Auraraptor, Jan 18, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2022
    Interesting zombie thread from over half a decade ago given the more recent market insanity.

    Also, while I appreciate boxerman’s experience, the F512m has four unique directional wheels, each with their own part numbers. No side should have the ‘wrong direction’ unless installed incorrectly. The wheels themselves were a quite interesting Magnesium center when first released. Unfortunately issues with air leaks (and ?possible metal premature fatigue) means the Al replacement versions were disappointingly heavy, detracting from the M’s inherent athleticism.

    I do think the major gripe with the styling comes from the headlight integration failing to fully capture/compliment the body lines of the TR. The other two issues being the ‘busy’ wheels (which I actually rather like if not for their HEAVY weight), and the integration (or lack of) the Ferrari 4 round tail lights (which I also like in theory if not exactly in execution).
     
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  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    I always felt the M was a great looking car with the exception of the wheels. It was a great finale for the car.

    As far as power goes. It is very overstated. I used to maintain several of them. The only difference in the US cars was the lightened crank and rods. Every other specification was exactly the same. It would take a dyno to know the difference. I strongly suspect the measured difference from one 512 to another would be greater than the difference between 512 and M.
     

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