Issues with 456M GT vs 456 GT

I have an 01 456m GT. IMO it is worth the premium over the non M cars. I also believe the price delta is diminishing over time. The interior is much more modern and ergonomically pleasing in the M's IMO. No sticky bits, no falling off pieces etc! and just an all round more modern interior very similar to the 550. The window issue is I believe indemic in all 456's because of their lacking the B pillar.

I think its hit and miss whether you find a car with the window problem. Most 95's will have this problem and many M cars willl also though not to the same extent I believe as the factory did impove the window issue in the later cars. I also believe the engine and engine management system on the later cars is more robust and less prone to problems as it should be.

Either way you cant go wrong. The 456 is an awesome car and IMO the best value for your ferrari $$ these days. They offer a superb V12 driving experience and the power and torque is intoxicating. And if you need those back seats you cant go wrong. It will make a very nice compliment to your F40.

 

I probably contributed to that other thread, so this might be redundant, but...

I own a 95 456GT. I have considered getting a 456M, mostly due to some specific issues with my car which have now been resolved.

Window seals: It is my understanding that they are no different on the M vs. the GT. The window mod may have been incorporated at the factory on the last Ms, but I am not sure about this. I know it was NOT included on 1999 cars.

I wouldn't consider getting a 456, whether it's an M or a GT, without making sure the window mod was done. If it was done at the factory, fine. If not, make sure you have the paperwork. It's about $10k, if you can even still get it done.

Engine mounts: I haven't had any problems, and I've asked my dealer to look into it, and they didn't find anything. That said, I've read things about them here, so I don't have a good answer.

Rear window delam: I don't know what problem you are talking about here.

Front dash, rear deck, trim pieces: I don't think there is much difference. Any time you have a leather dash or parcel shelf, you are going to have shrinkage issues unless you take care of it (and even then). The trim bits might be better on the M, but my GT, for instance, has no problems with trim (I do have some sticky stuff on my steering column).

My opinion is that the only real differences between the M and the GT are:

1) Styling. Personally, I prefer the GT's exterior styling and am indifferent on the interior changes. Really personal preference. For me, Advantage: 456GT.

2) Rear spoiler. I think the GT's movable rear spoiler is sort of cool. I assume they were able to get the same effect on the M without the complexity of having a movable spoiler. I'd call it a tossup.

3) Keyless entry. The 95 456GTs don't have it, the 97s and the 456Ms do. This is a very nice feature. Advantage: 456M.

4) OBD II: This is the biggest advantage on the 456M, IMO. Anyone with an OBDII scanner can read the codes and have a shot at diagnosing it. The 456GT has to go the dealer or someone with an SD1 or SD2. The 97 456GTs also have OBD II. Advantage: 456M.

I actually think the sleeper is the 97 456GT. If you can find a 6-speed (very, very rare), you get the styling of the 456GT with most of the functional advantages of the 456M.

Don't let anyone tell you to avoid the 95s because they are "the first year." That is nonsense. The first year for the 456 was 1992, they didn't import them to the US until 1995. So, other than a few gray market cars, there are NO first year 456s in the US.

The 456 is a phenomenal car. I was driving mine the other day on a longish trip, and thinking about how it really is one of the finest automobiles I know of, period.

Oh, car seats work fine in the 456. I've taken weekend trips before with the wife and both kids. The trunk space is a little tight for 4, but workable. Having slightly less room than you want is good-- it gives you a good excuse for telling the kids they can't bring too much stuff along!

 

I bought my 456 about a month ago, a '98 6-speed with about 18k well cared-for miles. I was looking for a '97 or '98 because of the OBD, not because of "first year issues". I agree with Don's post in almost every respect.

The windows are the only real issue IMHO. The original owner of my car had the windows done (under warranty, I believe) but they had to be redone before the car came to me. I understand that it is not uncommon for the window "fix" not to stay fixed. Clearly, this is not a car you would want to buy sight-unseen.

I hope I am not tempting fate by saying that the "motor mount" issue does not seem to be very common. I haven't heard anything about delamination on the window. There does appear to be an issue on some cars with leaking shocks, but they can be rebuilt or replaced. As with the windows, either a PPI or a dealer you trust is essential.

A couple of smaller things to bear in mind: On some cars the seat back mechanism can be a problem. The seat moves electrically forward and back when you fold/unfold the seat back. Apparently, the seats are easily confused, especially (don't ask why) on the passenger side. This was addressed successfully on my car. Another oddity, which may be common in Ferraris for all I know, is that the parking brake handle can be pushed down to the floor after the brake is engaged. This is not a clever design, especially since the indicator light on my car is, um, finicky. I'm not that impressed with the radio, but I mostly listen to WTUBI.

Finally, re car seats: my twins are 5 and their seats just barely fit in back. You should have no problem with either an infant seat or a front-facing child seat but some booster seats may be too wide.

I agree with Don completely regarding both the styling and the spoiler. This is my first Ferrari and I couldn't be happier.

Ron

 

My experiences with my 1995 are: Windows are specific to each car - mine were adjusted in 1999 and seal just fine. Passenger power seat is unreliable so it's fixed in one place (power disconnected). I refitted/re-stretched the shrinking leather on the 3rd brake light and rear package tray. A/C control panel is bubbly, easy, inexpensive fix. Passenger airbag is slightly warped. Right rear shock shows some very slight weeping for the past year. Fuel pump relays were going bad for some reason, not been a problem for a while.
Belly pans were starting to fall apart so I restored them ans used new hardware. Airbag light is on because I disconnected it for a child and when I reconnected it, the light stayed on. The engine-in major service is just as costly as an engine-out service.

I have a custom exhaust that reduces backpressure and sounds nice and throaty.

I prefer the styling of the 1995 over the M cars. However, I like the interior of the M cars better.

I wouldn't pay over $75k for any 456.

If I could do it again? I'd buy a 550 Maranello and retrofit some 456 rear seats in it (there's room with a few mods.)

 

I have a 95 456GT 6-speed.

Window seals are a problem, and adjustments are only a temporary fix.

Dash leather shrinkage is an issue, but no more so than other 'older' automobiles. I had the same problem with a 308.

Delaminating rear glass, power seats, and motor mounts are not an issue for my car.

Individual cars will have issues whether it is a 95 or a 04. Just decide what is important to you (6-speed vs. auto, styling differences, etc).

 

Hi Guys and anyone from this thread, understand its been a few years so not sure you all have your 456's still.

Im Looking at buying a 2001-02 456 Manual unseen to be honest and import it from England to australia. ive been reading the threads and although I understand lots of issues are possible. Do you believe they got fixed from 2000 onwards ?
I have a 03 360 manual spider so I understand the quirks on the classic modern era and I can somewhat justify some of them.

Id like to know if anyone has had any engine issues or electronic issues ? also is the gearbox notchy from 1st to 2nd ?

How does the windows get updated? is it a readjustment of how the windows close and is it really a 10k exercise ?

I also have a new born so id like to put a baby Capsule in the back and a 5 year old .. do you think I will have any space issues ?

thanks

 

Peter, I don’t have a 456 but have driven a few and admire your desire to own one as a family car and can answer two of your questions:

- all manual Ferraris are notchy into 2nd when cold. Unless there is a problem they are fine when oil is warm. In Australia this will be less of an issue than in England as ambient temperatures on startup also make a difference. The only exception is the 430 which has a spring-aided box as Fabio has explained. In any case all gated shifts are smoother when car has been working over a few miles on open roads.

- you should have no problem finding rear Facing car seat to fit a 456 though you may need to take some time over the search. A five year old should be fine, again, you will need to choose your seat to fit.

enjoy what is a beautiful and undervalued car.

 

"also is the gearbox notchy from 1st to 2nd ?"
*****
I thought that was "quirky" feature of F-Cars. I've done cold 1st to 3rd shifts for the 17 years that I've had my 575.

 

I bought my 456 a few months before I found out the girlfriend was pregnant. I've had my daughter in the car from a couple of months after birth to now, she's 4.

Windows are easy, it was about $800CAD all-in to have the regulators' armatures sorted by F1 imports in Florida. You can remove and install yourself, some adjusting required.

No problem with the space in the back, however with the rear-facing seat I ended up having to move the passenger seat almost all the way forward. It's okay if your passenger is below 170cm, but anything above that and long trips become a bit of a chore. We had an Uppababy rear-facing when the kid was little, Mesa was the model I think. Britax forward facing now--and plenty of room for three. I'm 188cm, and have the driver's seat all the way back so nobody can really sit behind me (also the reason I could not buy an M, there is less headroom).

I know every continent has different car seats and regs, so that may not be much use. The boot/trunk was also spacious enough to fit a variety of strollers and the requisite diaper/toy bags.

That said, my daughter loves the car. She's told me she can't wait for me to die so she can inherit it--hard not to laugh when your 3-year-old says that to your face with a huge grin.

 

All the cars will have electrical issues at some point, but note that no one has any wiring diagrams for the non-M cars, so if you have an issue, you are basically fumbling around in the dark. It can be very frustrating.
With engine problems, it's much easier to diagnose the M car (via the OBD2 port on US cars). The two cars are quite different, electrically.

 

Hi,

i’ve now had a 1995 Japanese market car for the seventh summer, and I agree with most of the comments but don’t understand the need to go to a dealer or the SD1/SD2. The Motronic 2.7’s and the sensors do not know where they are and they can be individually replaced and reset. They and all the ECU’s in the car are not that complex. YMMV.

Cheers!

 

All this depends on what US model year the 456 GT is. 1995 MYs are Motronic 2.7, which is pretty simple, as stated. US 1997 MY GTs are Motronic 5.2 and have OBDII, like the 456M GTs. There are no 1996 MY 456s.

 

Guys so whats the verdict? Should i buy 456GT manual from 1997 EU spec?
Btw im located in EU

 

If it is really a 97 model, it should have Motronic 5.2 like the 456M and 550. Should work fine. Buy based on condition, not on whether it is a 456 GT or 456M GT, even though the latter are rarer since they built less than 700 MGTs (same for MGTAs). Most of the 456s are GTs.

 

Tha car has airbag steering wheel so it's 5.2 Motronic? An yes it's 1997'

 

Yup, should be 5.2 with the three fob alarm system and OBDII connector. 5.2 was used on 456s starting in spring 1996. There were also 2.7 456s with airbags. All the 95 Model Year US 456 GTs had airbags, not sure about Europe.

 

From my anecdotal research, just the US-spec cars had airbags in 1995. Euro, Gulf and Japan spec did not.