We want every race to be like The Superbowl......Chase Carey. nuff said
I'm going to go a little against what I have said and offer an opinion on the season at large leading up to Abu Dhabi. Over the course of the season and as a general observation it is my opinion (not as a fan of one driver over another but as a racer) that in instances where Max and Lewis got close together that Max was generally the aggressor and that Lewis moved out of the way more than his fair share of times to avoid an incident. The times when he held his ground there was a collision. Not for a second do I believe that Silverstone was intentional or deliberate. I truly believe that was an inevitable accident many races in the making. I also believe that Max's driving particularly in the early part of the season got more than his fair share of 'latitude' by the FIA for reasons we can only theorize about. Regardless I continue with the idea that by the last race, things were equal enough on both fronts to accept that a one race battle was a just way of sorting out the championship. Nobody denies that Max passed Lewis on track. In addition I'll add that I have zero problems with the choices the teams made tactically and if Max benefitted from fresh tires and a team mate that pulled off the track then that is 100% ok and fair. What is questionable and under debate is the legality of the decision that created the opportunity for Max to make that final pass. Max did nothing wrong and he is not on trial here. My interpretations of both the rules and of law (something I have some experience and even training in) is that Masi did not follow the rules correctly and that if an independent court were to rule on it (not the FIA internally where there are inherent issues with such a ruling) that the decision to move some cars rather than all would be found to be outside of the rule of the race director. The decision to pull the safety car in earlier could be more contentious but I believe would still be a loss for the FIA because of the strong precedent to support the need and the practice of an additional pace lap. I have zero interest in complaining about how things should be and that 'if the rules were different...' This is why I continue (until proven otherwise) that Masi did in fact operate both outside of spirit and letter of the regulations as it pertains to the lap cars and pace car.
Agree. Max never avoids collision. Its his way or no way. Hamilton had many good battles with Perez, Alonso etc. No accident. Battles with Max= accidents. But somehow Lewis is the factor.
NOTHING that happened before Abu Dhabi mattered, right? "how and why" MV and LH arrived at that last race, "tied for points" doesn't matter (so we are told). Following that same reasoning ... "how and why" MV and LH arrived at that last lap, "tied for position" doesn't matter. ("But ... but ... the only reason that MV was in a position to battle was xyz a lap or two earlier!" OH NO YOU DON'T. Can't have it both ways) Verstappen won his first WDC by passing Hamilton on a racetrack. All events that led to that final fight-for-position, are completely irrelevant (so the pro-Hamilton reasoning goes). Either the past matters, or it doesn't. Either ALL races in a season count, or they don't. Either ALL laps in a race count, or they don't. You don't get to "pick and choose".
Masi acted in accordance with the LETTER of the rules: Don't listen to me, listen to the stewards on the "letter" of the rules: "Having considered the various statements made by the parties the Stewards determine the following: That Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal. That although Article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, Article 48.13 overrides that and once the message "Safety Car in this lap" has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap." Masi acted in accordance with the SPIRIT of the rules: Don't listen to me, listen to Andrew Shovlin ... speaking for Mercedes ... on the "spirit" of the unlapping rule: "This will have two important effects, firstly the cars directly behind the safety will line up in actual race order so when the race restarts they are in a position to overtake each other. Secondly, the majority of the field will be on the same racing lap, bunched together and with some of the cars on new tyres. Together with the DRS, this should create exciting racing in the midfield where cars on older tyres will be ahead of cars that have stopped for fresh rubber who are trying to battle their way up the order for points.” (Yes, i keep quoting Mercedes ... because THEY are the team complaining. When Mercedes drops any complaints with the same publicity as their protests ... and when other teams "pick up the fight" and file official complaints about Abu Dhabi ... i'll stop quoting Shovlin). BOTTOM LINE: The stewards fully support Masi on following the "letter" of the rules, and Masi practically followed Mercedes' own interpretation, word-for-word, on the "spirit" of the rules!! This case would never, NEVER see the inside of a courtroom ... especially if Mercedes is the sole complainant !!!!
If F1 was in an ordinary company, he would have got the bullet already. Businesses usually don't like those who attract controversy.
Unfortunately we disagree here. Another poster offered some really insightful information in the following thread that mirrored my thoughts exactly: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/clause-15-3-and-why-masi-broke-the-rules.652526/ I will add that it can be legitimately argued that Masi showed an abuse of power in his actions which is equally if not more egregious. This would be the same as a police officer speeding with the lights and sirens on to get to a donut store because a new batch was out. The law allows a police officer to do that but the reasons for which he did represent an abuse of power.
I agree, this is a good analogy. The only reason a police officer should be able to do that is for safety only.
Here's the thing, I'm not a Verstappen fan, but I would be lying if I said I am not joyed he won just from the spectacle of it all. I know this gives no solace to Hamilton/English fans, and I understand the counterpoint. I would be dishonest if I said I think Verstappen won 'fair and square.' To me, this championship will always be tinged. I think Verstappen knows it too. Which makes 2022 that much more exciting!!!
I'm well aware of that thread. The original poster never understood that "48.13 over-rides 48.12" (that's a direct quote from the stewards, that has nothing to do with Masi). The OP also tried to argue that the "over-riding authority" of the Race Director, must be "restricted" to mean "over-riding authority over the race clerk, only" ... even though the rule says no such thing (even if it did, 48.12 gives a choice to the clerk ... not the Director). The OP also never acknowledged the "ambiguous" language in 48.12 ... an ambiguity that gave rise to the use of the word "may" in the stewards ruling, and an ambiguity that the Race Director has full authority to resolve. There's a pretty clear "hierarchy" to the rules: 15.3 > 48.13 > 48.12 Not only is 48.12 the "weakest" of the 3 (according to the stewards), but the ambiguous language it contains can only be resolved by someone with full authority to do so. Finally ... when considering the "strength" of 15.3 in relation to the safety car, please consider the conspicuous presence of the qualifier/restriction "in accordance with the Sporting Regulations" in sections a) thru c), a phrase that's conspicuously absent in sections d) and e) (use of the safety car). As i see it, there's just no way to escape the conclusion: any arguments that try to "limit" the authority of the Race Director, in regards to the safety car ... are simply on very, very weak ground.
A point i've made before: If someone wants to talk about changes to the rules ... changes that would, going forward, restrict the Race Director's authority regarding the safety car, in order to avoid these rare cases of confusion ... i'm all for it! But "rule changes" are tantamount to exonerating Masi, rather than implicating him (if the only problem was that Masi "went rogue" and broke the rules, why would the rules themselves need to change?)
In fact, when a cop puts on his lights and sirens (cutting through traffic, running red lights, etc) he is putting all surrounding traffic in a more dangerous situation ... that's why cops (at least, the good ones) don't take that action haphazardly. I think (not sure) there's some pretty strict rules and requirements on when a cop may speed, with lights and sirens.
I agree and not dumbing down his achievements one little bit, but in my opinion he has to look in the mirror everyday and wonder. Perhaps that may inspire him to greater things, if he has the right car ? Best tony
Just imagine the 100m Olympic final, both title contenders are neck and neck heading for the beam and one referee sticks his foot out and trips up the guy who was leading............if that was Mr Bolt he would be pee'd off i am sure and the winner would feel cheated he didnt do him fair and square !
Most of Max's infraction are also technical infringements, so once again, we see supporters of Hamilton who wish to paint Max as being a reckless driver, using criteria that literally applies to Hamilton. People forget that the good old days had their share of horrible officiating decisions, much worse than anything in last years season finale. F1 has been through championships being decided by drivers crashing into each other purposefully, drivers running each other into walls to block, stewards waiting 1 hour to make a ruling on something that happened at the start of the race, teams being caught cheating, teams being caught spying, teams manipulating race results with orders, teams being disqualified out of races, teams being disqualified then reinstated on appeal, and teams outright faking crashes to bring out strategic yellows. Oh yeah, almost forgot. Mosley with hookers! Point is, people acting like Masi slightly altering the safety car protocol is the worst officiating ever in F1, and is the first decision made in the name of entertainment either have short memories or perspective, or just want to be melodramatic because Hamilton lost a title in a heartbreaker. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Nah, he's not going to look in the mirror and wonder anymore than Hamilton will about whether he could've beaten Verstappen and Vettel if they raced a Mercedes. Had Hamilton won the title, Silverstone and Hungary wouldn't have bothered Hamilton a bit. And yes, you are are trying to taint Max's title. But it won't work.
Do you understanding racing rules at all? Really? The stewards literally allowed Hamilton to cut the course to defend his position without penalty, and threatened Max with being held responsible for any contact between the two drivers. Yeah, those stewards REALLY wanted to rob Hamilton.
Honestly, this is the whole problem with this "debate". To defend their position, the Hamilton fans need to ignore ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that happened before that final lap: ALL races leading-up to Abu Dhabi, ANY events and/or decisions that conspired all season long to keep Hamilton in contention, ANY pre-race agreements with the Race Director, anything ever said by Mercedes previously about the "spirit" of unlapping, even the first lap at Abu Dhabi followed by Mercedes' own pit stop blunder(s) ... it must ALL be swept under the carpet, so that they have a "bad guy" to blame for Hamilton's loss. True fans of the sport simply aren't buying it.
THE only reason Hamilton even had a shot at the title was because he shunted Max out at Silverstone, and was given a slap on the wrist 10 second time penalty. Then that idiot Bottas rams into both RBR cars at Hungary, costing Max another solid podium chance. Without both of those incidents, Max would've had at least an extra 18 point, which would've rendered Abu Dhabi pointless. It would've been awful had those two crashes caused by Mercedes drivers that did rob Max of a good 36+ points swung the title to Hamilton. But Hamilton's most extreme fans are just incapable of seeing this. They only see what's good for Hamilton, and not what's right or wrong. Dare any official or team do anything that negatively effects Hamilton, and the Hamilton posse will unleash their toxicity. This is why I think Hamilton retiring would actually be good for the sport. His toxic fans would leave.
Well said. I find Max winning to be karma on Mercedes and Hamilton's most toxic fans. In a season where everything went against Max to bring Hamilton back into contention, where stewardship was constantly letting Hamilton walk, and where Mercedes found engine power for Lewis to just cruise by Max on the straights of the final 4 races, and it seemed like Hamilton was going to win that record 8th title, the racing gods turned on them at the 11th hour, putting a dagger through their hearts. That can't emotionally process and handle it. It's rather pathetic.
