Michael Masi gets fired/replaced?

It’s just not as simple as you contend. Here’s the opinion from a different World Champ:

"I think he will come back," Frenchman Ogier, the reigning world rally champion, told European media outlet RMC.

"He is in an ultra-competitive environment with the best team of the moment. It must have been a very difficult situation for him," Ogier said, referring to the waning moments of the F1 Abu Dhabi finale.

"He really felt like he was robbed. And he was robbed, let's not be afraid to say that," Ogier added, explaining that Hamilton did everything he possibly could have done to beat Max Verstappen to the checkered flag. "Although I have a lot of respect for Max and he had a great season, on that last weekend Lewis dominated the race and was in front all the way until the very end.

"Unfortunately for him, there was the famous safety car only a few laps from the finish. So whether it was one or the other, they are both great champions, but looking just at that weekend, it was theft.

 

And why do we care what a World Rally champ says?

Jackie Stewart.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/jackie-stewart-f1-disagrees-2021-25831326
"I think it was handled in the right way. It was done correctly, there was no film business in this,” Stewart told Motorsport.com."

“This was not Hollywood, this was pure and the public enjoy that authenticity. Never in the history of the sport has there been such a lock.”

The Brit was asked if the race should have ended with a red flag, to which he said: “No, because there was actually no reason for a red flag.”

https://www.gpfans.com/en/f1-news/74806/villeneuve-calls-for-masi-to-remain-after-doing-everything-right/
"Michael Masi should not be removed," Villeneuve told Gazzetta dello Sport.

"He worked under pressure with the two team principals, in particular, Toto Wolff, who in the last 5 races, continued to scream in his ears.

"He did almost everything right after that safety car. The only drawback is that he could [have let] everyone [unlap themselves] a lap earlier, but it was right to restart the race.

 

Because he sees things without the bias of folks who may respond to their ox being gored. He’s looking at it purely from a racing perspective, and he’s far more qualified of an opinion than any of us on this site. (Ex Nuvolari and others who actually race cars)

 

With thanks to all Hamilton fans, the stages of deniability of Max being the 2021 F1 World Champion:

1) He is World Champion

The end.

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And what about the 2022 championship ?

 

Not many will deny that, but the manner he was given the championship is debatable.

 

Clearly its not debatable when the FIA might remove the gent from his role and install a system to prevent one person on deciding who should win a race.

 

Eh I thought it best to insert some levity into the proceedings.

When I had an actual reasoned argument I was only met with hilariously bad takes.

Since the truth doesn’t matter here I plan to use this thread solely for entertainment.

 

I see—good put then. Shows how much some people have taken this to heart if that chart is anything to go by. Probably an F1 neophyte youngster or Trevor Noah

Sadly though some of the truth being put forward here is not far off what’s written in that manifesto. And I will continue to argue that anyone who thinks Masi tried to favour one driver over another is wrong. If he did, he’d be out by now. And frankly, I don’t think he’s going anywhere based on what the FIA have said and the ambivalence shown by the other teams on this matter.

 

Ogier cancelled on my list too.

 

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I hate to do it, but since we have the meme’s flowing….maybe a “funner” way to debate and blow off steam lol
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It is this type of reasoning as a means of justification that pulls attention away from the real issue at hand. The issue is that Masi used an unconventional procedure when there was no special reason or force majeure to require it. The outcome of this decision set into motion a course of events that would otherwise have been different (even if they yielded the same race result) had previously accepted regulations been followed.

The most perfect example is again in law with what is known as 'Fruit of the Poisonous Tree'. I urge anyone to look this concept up but it has been shown in Police movies and TV shows forever. In essence a Police officer carries out a search without following established procedure and normally uses some exceptional circumstance to explain why he did so. In the end all of the evidence and subsequent discoveries of the police are thrown out because they were the product of an illegal search.

Some people just don't want to understand that the PROCESS is what is on discussion here. If the process is flawed so too is everything that comes after it.

 

I've already explained to you why there was indeed a special reason to alter restart protocol: the fact that there was WDC on the line. Maybe that isn't a sufficient reason for you, but it is a legitimate reason, and racing series all around the world alter normal procedure, so that there is a clean end to the championship. That may include things like informing the grid that back markers should take care to not to hold up title contenders, warning teammates of title contenders not to use any dirty tactics against their teammates rival, and yes, using every tool in the tool box to get a green flag finish to the season, if it can be safely.

You bring up the poisonous tree and keep going back to these police analogies, which holds no resemblance to race officiating at all.

Race officiating is very difficult. People don't grasp it's the hardest sport to referee. In stick and ball sports, when something unsporting seems to have occurred, the play can be stopped while officials review it, then give back whatever was incorrectly done to the other team. If a review is questioned by players, higher officials can further review the play, and reverse the call if they disagree with the on field ruling.

This is not usually possible in racing. As an example, young racers in karting learn quickly, that if you receive a black flag to come into the pits for a penalty, and you come in to serve it, but it's later discovered you were not actually guilty of the infraction, the officials can not put you back where you before the penalty. You've gone from leading the race (hypothetically) to whatever position you cycled back through after the penalty, and there is no way to undue, even if you're later found to be innocent.

Take the 2003 USGP. Juan Montoya was given an absolutely unfair penalty for contact with Ruben Barrichello. It put him back in the field, he lost time, and took him out of the championship. Even though onboard footage later showed it the incident to just be an accident, it didn't matter. what was done, was done. The stewards could not give back JPM what they took from him.

Or take the 1997 Indy 500. During a late race yellow, without warning, and with the yellow light on, the green flag was suddenly displayed. Arie Luyendyk quickly accelerated, and Scott Goodyear was caught out, unable to catch him. It cost Goodyear his final chance at an Indy 500 victory. There was no way to 'unrun' the final lap, and give Goodyear his chance back. USAC and cooked his golden egg.

Does this make Schumacher's championship or Luyendyk's second Indy 500 any less legitimate? F- no! This is a unique variable to racing. It's a love/hate thing we all have to deal with. Uncorrectable errors of officialdom are a variable for all competitors, and at one time or another, every race will be on the gifting end, as well the... screwed end. It's not new, and it's never going away from racing in any sanctioning body. It can be an unfair ***** if you're on the business end of an unfair call, but that's racing.

Now, am NOT saying this what Masi's protocol falls under. My point is that even if it did, it doesn't matter. Max's championship is no less legitimate because of it.

 

What I said was plain and clear. If you don't understand that, it's your your problem.

 

You've made straw man, after straw man, after straw man throughout this entire thread.

When someone explains to you how Masi had authority to alter protocol, you start going off about how we're saying Masi can force drivers to pit and make different cars carry different fuel loads and odd ****. Just ridiculous stuff that nobody has even been in the ball park of saying.

 

I think what hasn't been pointed out enough is that is what absolutely possible for Hamilton have defended the lead for a measly one lap. He was never denied that ability. There was no penalty that took him out of the race.

Shoulda' coulda means nothing in racing.

There were absolutely defensive moves he could've pulled to stay in the lead, but he didn't get a chance because he left the door wide open for Max at turn 5.

I think Hamilton was expecting Max to try and pass him in turn 6, rather than turn 5, and was focused on getting a good run out of the latter rather than defending. If you watch on Hamilton's onboard, he gets totally caught off guard if you watch his steering.

 

Imagine how much interesting stuff we could be talking about if there had been open testing this winter. Can anyone name the relief drivers for the ten teams are?

 

Your perspective sitting from the comforts of a armchair may be at odds with the two racing drivers actually involved.

 

I didn't say anything about forcing drivers to pit or fuel loads. So you have confused me with some one else.
You see, it's real simple. Either what Masi did was right or wrong. You can post the rules a hundred times a day. It doesn't matter because until those lapped teams come out and say we were treated fairly, it doesn't matter. And to be honest until FIA change the rules to make it clear the race director can hand pick cars to unlap, many will believe that this championship was a farce.

 

That's exactly it. All this fuss about 3 cars that couldn't unlap, all coming from a group that supports the driver that lost out? Please. Like they care about them. The outrage is purely because Lewis lost.

The unlapping of only a select cars isn't the problem. If all cars unlapped, and letter followed to the law, they'd be working just as hard saying Max won only because the SC and unlapping.

It's absolutely ****ing childish.

 

That's exactly what happened !!! And who arranged for that ? Masi !!!

 

It's not about who cares about what team, it's about the rules. We know that Latifi may not win the next race, still we should allow him the same opportunity as everyone else.

 

Mate, stop moving the ****ing goal post.

The rules are what they are. For this particular situation, they are written poorly. That doesn't mean what happened was illegal. At worst, it was a loophole. Not Masi's fault the FIA can't write rules properly to situations that didn't exist before. That's how amendments to regulations get made.

But now those teams need to come out and say they where treated fairly before you accept the result of the championship? ****ing grow up already with your childlike behavior. You know perfectly well that stuff like you isn't just being said.

Accept the result of the championship, stop trying to say it's all about Masi when you constantly question the result of the championship. For 6 weeks straight you've been told the regulations. For 6 weeks straight you've been moving the goalpost.

I'm ****ing amazed you've not been banned here. You don't even attempt to have an intelligent argument. Risksb, Nuvolari, at least they post with intelligence and can string an argument together. Your only reason for being here is to troll and have been since day ****ing 1. You do not care about Ferrari road cars. You do not care about Ferrari F1 team. You do no care for Ferrari drivers current or past (in fact you do your best to insult them).

Your refusal to accept any type of counter argument is beyond annoying.

To make it clear, no one here is saying you're not allowed here because you support a different driver. I've supported plenty non-Ferrari drivers here in all the time I've been here. And there are plenty like me. Hell, even those that are avid supporters of Lewis. Their difference vs you is that they at least give a **** about the rest of the forum, they do not constantly **** on Ferrari heroes. We all disagree at times. This is not a place for echo chambers (that's what makes this forum so active). YOU however, seem to make it your life mission to disagree with everyone on this forum.

And take it from me, even Hamilton supporters here aren't happy you're on their team.

I'm sure you're on a cat forum somewhere arguing why dogs are superior.