456 6speed 1995 broken down! | FerrariChat

456 6speed 1995 broken down!

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by belfry, Jan 29, 2022.

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  1. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    464
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    I thought that I'd take my wife away for a nice weekend together. I had been dealing with a blocked rear brake pipe on the 456 this week so she was slightly wary when I said that we'd take the Ferrari!

    After about an hour of easy driving I noticed an occasional 'stutter' as well as the orange "Engine warning light 7-12". It would disappear then return randomly. I thought that it was getting worse as we pulled into the restaurant for lunch yesterday. I called a Ferrari trained mechanic who thought that it might be the MAF sensor or O2 sensor on that bank of cylinders, otherwise it could be an injector. But his garage was some distance away so I called the AA recovery service.

    The AA man arrived and admitted that he'd never actually seen or worked on a Ferrari engine before. But we looked for anything that might have become disconnected. He did notice that one of the spark plug leads (the top part with the Ferrari logo) was a little distorter. I admitted that I'd used pliers to remove the leads last summer when I changed the spark plugs last summer and that I had damaged the top of that lead. However, the car had been running perfectly since then with this lead in place.

    I called a friend who lives near the restaurant and he told me about a local mechanic who has owned several Ferraris and works on Ferraris and Maseratis. It was only 2 miles to the garage so I asked the AA man to follow me to the local garage. The car had been sitting for 90 minutes and it ran perfectly on the 2 mile journey with no misfires or warnings.

    The suggested local mechanic knew way more about the engine, thank goodness. The AA told him about the plug lead but he replied that one faulty plug lead would not be enough to trip the engine light. His suggestion was cam sensors. He said that we could swap the cam sensors to see if the issue moves to the other bank.

    The car is not going to be looked at until next week and one issue is that the problem is intermittent. Any ideas over the weekend would be very welcome.
     
  2. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    13,837
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Do UK 456s have test switches for the engine ECUs? The Ferrari 348 and early F355s with 2.7 engine management systems have optional pushbutton test switches which cause the Check Engine Lights to flash in a certain sequence and these flashes correspond to fault codes.
    I have asked this question before, but no one seems to know. Search this forum for “test button” using my member name “Qavion” for further details on the test.

    If no test button and the problem cannot be diagnosed with old fashioned skills, you may need a Ferrari dealer with an SD tool. For example, if you disconnect a MAF and the car runs better after a few seconds, that MAF may be faulty.

    These engine management systems should be able to detect misfires. I thought that a faulty plug lead would therefore cause a CEL (???).
     
  3. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    464
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    I haven't seen a test button in the driver's footwell. This procedure does seem like a dark art!
    I'm still very interested to hear of any armchair diagnosis suggestions.
     
  4. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    13,837
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    On some of these Ferraris, there are no test buttons for the ECUs, but an unused 3 pin plug coming from each ECU. By shorting out specific pins on the plug you can simulate a button push, but as you say, it's a dark art... especially as we have no wiring diagrams for these cars.

    Perhaps this is a clue. Something temperature-related. Perhaps not a MAF problem, but I wouldn't exclude it completely. Electrics are unpredictable.

    Anyway, this is a dual ECU setup with components which can be swapped from left to right relatively easily (MAF's, coil power modules, coilpacks, O2 sensors, etc).

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    Unfortunately, this would be a slow way of faultfinding, especially if the fault is only evident after an hour or so. The fastest way would be to interrogate the ECUs.
     
  5. philfrench

    philfrench Karting

    Jan 3, 2012
    104
    France
    Hello Belfry
    A friend of mine had the same problèm.
    It was a craked plug like yours
    When hot and accelerating a lot, the misfires of the bad cylinder gives an amount of unburned gas to the cat whitch becomes too hot and that gives the dash signal.
    He changes the whole spark harness and everything is ok from now
    You must take care with these rubber plugs ,they broke from the inside very easily
     
  6. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    464
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    That's really helpful, thank you. I've heard that the spark plug wires are very expensive. Any idea what he paid?
     
  7. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    464
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    But wouldn't I get a 7-12 slow down light if the cat gets too hot?
    I only got 7-12 Check engine warning.
     
  8. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    464
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    I’ve just heard from the garage: “It’s a misfire and I’ve ordered a set of leads which will arrive on Friday “.

    I’m going to keep the old leads for spares.
    I stupidly used pliers to pull off the leads when I changed the spark plugs last year. I slightly misshaped one of the leads (underneath the Ferrari logo) on the bank with the misfire. Is there anyway to repair that connection so that I can have a spare set of 12 for emergencies. Or does everyone always replace them as new sets of 6?
     
    Qavion likes this.
  9. philfrench

    philfrench Karting

    Jan 3, 2012
    104
    France
    Because the broken boot was on this bank
    And the rubber of your car was indeed old so resistivity of the boot plug will be much better
    And you can use a special tool to remove boot
     
  10. carguy246

    carguy246 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 8, 2006
    1,196
    Maryland
    There is a member on here that sells just the single leads for whichever cylinder you need. I believe he also lists them on ebay. Much cheaper than buying a set of six.
     
  11. philfrench

    philfrench Karting

    Jan 3, 2012
    104
    France
    Indeed but old item so rubber boot will have a bad resistivity and will do not so good spark
     
  12. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    464
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    Ferrari classic parts sent the wrong set of leads last week.

    Just re-ordering and the price for a set of 12 with harnesses is £2,000!
    As only one lead is damaged is there a solution to either repair or replace the damaged end on the lead?

    Someone suggested that a member on here sells individual leads. Anyone know their name please?
     
  13. asgor

    asgor Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2016
    713
    Virginia, USA
    That would be me :)
    I sent you a PM
     
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  14. belfry

    belfry Formula Junior

    May 14, 2015
    464
    UK
    Full Name:
    Robert Batt
    It was a broken spark plug lead, where it connects to the rubber boot. I guess that connection suffered as the car became hot.

    The mechanic ended up cutting the rubber boot open and repaired the broken core by soldering it to the connection in the boot. This was not his preferred option, but it did get my car home while I sourced new leads.

    Having tried to buy a whole new set with the plastic mounting harness I discovered that all of the sets available in the UK are aftermarket sets without the Ferrari logo on the top of the boots. Even the sets at £2,000 did not have the logo.

    I have bought 4 original spark plug boots from a Ferrari owner (with logos) so that I can just replace the one repaired lead (although the fix is working perfectly). I can source the lead from a member on here and add one of the new boots which will arrive in the next few days.

    Hopefully I've managed to save £2,000 and retain the original look of the engine without aftermarket parts.
     
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