So much news in recent years about Hamilton matching Schumacher's championships. Is Lewis the GOAT, does Schumacher still hold that title, and why? Keep in mind that I'm not an F1 expert, and don't know that much about the intricacies of track racing. I'm just trying to understand the debate from a layman's perspective.
No, he is not. All his titles were won with the best car and he never had a strong team mate. The first time Rosberg put the things together he defeated Hamilton. Difficult to say who is the GOAT, but it's probably within Schumacher, Senna, Fangio, etc.
There is no such thing as a GOAT in F1. Each era of racing his different challenges for drivers, the drivers in other eras didn't have, or only did lesser extents. Hamilton is apart of the discussion, but so are Schumacher, Fangio, Prost, Clark Senna, and Stewart, and I'd put all of them over him.
He's Vettel with the dominant car for a longer stretch, IMHO. Nothing wrong with that, as most greats need a top 2 car to win a title. I laughed my backside off when a writer that was trying to argue Hamilton was the GOAT, said Hamilton didn't have the benefit of having a teammate who was obligated to being a number 2 driver, as if Bottas and Kovalainen didn't exist. Rosberg was only tallowed o race Hamilton in 16' because he got on an incredible roll, where he won the final 3 races of 15', then came out of the gate in 16' to win the first 4 races again, and make it 8 in a row, while Hamilton got off to a mediocre start. At that point, Mercedes had to let them race. It got in Ham's head so bad, that he crashed into Rosberg in Spain, and drove desperate the whole year, with his now infamous attempt to back Rosberg up into an incident in the season finale. That year showed how quickly things fall apart for Ham mentally when it all isn't going his way, even with the best car.
Nope. I'd put Prost, Clark, and Fangio above Schumacher on my list if that tells you anything. Take Prost. He accumulated the most points in a season 5 times, missed out on one title by half a point, had two current world champions has his teammate, two soon to be world champions has his teammate, and had to be taken out to be kept away from another championship. Yeah, I'd put him above both Hamilton and Schumacher. Official stats don't always tell the whole story.
Not the Greatest Of All Time. No F1 driver is the G.O.A.T. Lewis is the Greatest Of His Era.... given the rules and regulations that benefited Mercedes of said era.
Nico and Max beat Lewis for the WDC outright, with Nico in equal equipment and Max in inferior. Button outscored Lewis as a teammate. Suggesting he's the GOAT is laughable. Next.
Ok. How do rules benefit one race team over another? Remember, I'm not steeped in F1 lore, I'm just trying to learn here.
I know this will be blasphemy among these parts, but I think Lewis Hamilton is better then Schumacher. Just my opinion.
There is no such thing as a GOAT. It's a myth. You cannot compare drivers from different eras; it's as simple as that !!!
Mercedes started R&D this turbo-hybrid formula back in 2007.....so they had a very early head start. Once the formula started in 2014, Mercedes had a 100hp advantage over EVERYONE which is HUGE in F1. Then the token system started, from 2014 thru 2016-->3 years, that hampered engine development....furthering Mercedes dominance. Honda IS THE ONLY engine builder to turn it around in 7 years time with RedBull. Honda came in in 2015 with no help and "battled" with Mclaren for 3 years which then Mclaren left Honda for Mercedes and Honda went to Toro Rosso( Alpha Tauri) which worked out better for Honda. Did Mercedes build a better "mousetrap?" Absolutely but everyone else had there "hands tied behind their back." So the rules and regulations, to include the FIA, benefited Mercedes coming into this turbo-hybrid era. Yes, everyone agreed to the rules and regulations.
Well, to note and again, this is my opinion. Schumacher and team made Benetton which in turn made Ferrari. Mercedes made Lewis the G.O.T.E. Lewis did'nt make Mercedes.
+1 I am bias about this, since Prost was my favourite driver, but it's true that he deserved all of his 4 titles, and a bit more. He always competed against strong opposition, and has an amazing career, IMO. But I still wouldn't compare him with drivers from completely different periods, racing different formulas, under different rules. Also, as a footnote, I would say that Prost and Lauda are the only ones to win a WDC after a sabatical, which I also find remarkable.
LH..... None will remeber personal memorys, or who your fav is, they will only look at the records, they will see LH with the most, for the same reason Fangio and Senna Prost and co dont get a look in now and its between LH and Schumacher talked about by f1 as the goats. My opinion is same as Kimi near enough, But its between Prost, Fangio and Senna for me, all 3 was amazing so cant choose ( For me ). but in the same breath, different era's so cant really compare, would they win in todays cars? would Schumacher win in todays cars or in the cars back then? would LH win in the old cars? No one will ever know, we can only guess, but i cant argue that LH is the GOAT of the era he has driven in, its the most honest comment i can say. Also dont get the hate Rosberg gets, he isnt the greatest, but he would have mixed it with MV and LH last year and made it a 3 way fight, i thought he was a great qualifier with pretty good race pace and overtaking ability he aslo beat Schumacher, twice and LH ( How many on the current grid can say that, Hes beaten both of the recent greats in the same car... ). i have to say i was gutted he quit, would have been much better than watching Bottas. For me, i like to focus on who will be the next GOAT...Will it be MV? ( has every thing needed + extra, amazing talent can redbull provide the cars though?). Will it be CL. Will it be LN? ( Looked great last seson..) What about GR? will we even see any one get 7 again? I thought no one would match Schumacher's 7 when he retired.
gee, I wonder if this question has ever been debated Sometimes it is just easier to start a new thread than rummage through pgs and pgs of older threads ...............
I'm no Senna fanboy as evidenced by my not putting him in my top 5, but I will say this. Mansell fit the CART series like a glove. Suited his charge to the front, hold nothing back style, that was much the same as Senna's. Can you imagine Senna in CART also, racing against Andretti, Fittipaldi, Unser Jr, Sullivan and Mansell? Senna at Long Beach, the Indy 500, Michigan, Laguna, and Road America? We don't have to guess how tight and insane that would be, as Mansell showed us. Talk about a race fans heaven.
You don't measure a race driver by their stats. You measure them by how much they did with what they had. How many races they won that they should've lost, and how many races they lost that they should've won. Stirling Moss won 16 grand prix and no titles. But he was an amazing grand prix driver, and that stats don't do him justice.
Alonso with Minardi.....so-so. Alonso with Renault....awesome. He still has some oomph at his age. Vettel with Toro Rosso....great. Vettel with RedBull....awesome. Vettel is on the decline....like several years ago. Max with Toro Rosso....great. Max with RedBull....awesome. Ricciardo with RedBull....great. Ricciardo currently with Mclaren....he's gettin beat by Norris. Gasly's has taken the demotion from RedBull quite well with Alpha Tauri and is very consistent for like 3 years. Perez is very consistent with Force India-->Racing Point--> RedBull....but not near to Max. Leclerc was awesome in F2.....did well with Alfa-Romeo and made Seb look bad at Ferrari. Leclerc had a bad 2021 against Sainz. I.judged an F1 driver on how they did in the lower or back-marker team BEFORE moving to a top team......but that's not always the case when judging an F1 driver.
This is a large part of my anti-Brady argument. The rules in football are SO DIFFERENT now. You can't hit the QB, you can't touch the receivers, QBs are allowed to ground the ball. There's no way to compare Brady to Marino or Montana because the passing game was magnitudes more violent and difficult when they played. So your explanation makes sense to me. Thank you.
It is very simple. For the non Hamilton supporters he is not the GOAT. For the Hamilton supporters he is the GOAT. For others who look at the whole picture it is agreed that you cannot compare drivers from different eras which I agree with. This topic has been flogged to death on this site. Another thread adds nothing to what everyone has already said previously ad nauseum and will now repeat here. F1 does not revolve around Hamilton surely there are other interesting things to discuss with F1 that will not include Hamilton or references to Hamilton.