355 spider top question

OK, will check that out. I was testing B14 with the roof 15" back from the header, so perhaps that is the problem? I thought we were testing B14 when the PRIMARIES were fully extended.....my mistake

On my car this is a red/white wire. Will keep checking.

I have been cheating.....looks like a pain to pull back those panels covering the solenoid, so I have only been checking things at the roof ECU plugs. Do I have to get to the solenoid? How easy/difficult to remove those panels?

 

I recall that one side is easier than the other because some pieces are interlocking (can't remember which side, though) . The main piece running under the window is only held on with a few screws (under the caps). When refitting the screws on the main piece, you will probably need a magnetic screwdriver to stop the screws falling (or some kind of tape to hold onto the screws). Be careful of the leather sheaths on the rams (they can separate and will need regluing).

Here is the broken wire on Boaf 32's car.

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Can I find the 12v+ wire for F1 near the pump/relay/ECU area?

 

I've never traced it, but I would say it would go with the other wiring back towards the ECU. The power which feeds the F1 solenoid also feeds the solenoids of the roof up/down relays (yellow wires). I don't know if the wires are spliced here or elsewhere. The wiring diagrams show splice "30039" as uniting these wires. However, 30039 takes power from the ignition key and sends it to many things... alarm, alternator, ignition coils, etc. 30039 could be one giant crimped splice or a combination of splices along the length of the wire.

 

Repeated attempts grounding A8 has yielded nothing.

Unfortunately, I was hoping to check everything from the pump area and have not accessed the plug. Continuity check needs to be done next.

There is no ground present at B14 in any position. Is there any relationship between no ground at B14 and nothing occuring while grounding A8 or just coincidence?

Is the B14 microswitch internal or external?

Last year, my top was removed so I am hoping that there might a wire or connection issue.

 

No relationship with the Roof ECU removed.

Internal.

Possibly something wasn't hooked up or the harness/es were damaged during reinstallation. The wiring does go in the same general direction (Left hand buttress)

 

OK....its time to call myself out...got a lot of egg on my face.

In a prior post I said the wire at pin A8 was red/white. FAKE NEWS! I was shorting pin A11 which is orange/white and is for a jumper under each seat and unrelated. (I thought orange/white was red/white...more egg)

I removed the cylinder panels and exposed the solenoid and connector. The connector had one solid red wire, and a red/black wire. The red wire was 12v+ with ignition on and the red/black did not share continuity with (what I thought was A8) the pin I had been using to test the system. Looked closer and found a red/black wire which indeed shared continuity with the solenoid red/black. This was the REAL A8. When I earthed A8, my secondary cylinders work properly...happy days!

Ian, can I proceed with what you provided below? If yes, do you know the size or type of the male pins I need to get to plug into the ECU plugs?

 

I can also confirm good earths at pins A5 and B13 when primary rams are full up.

I believe I am good to go........???

 

Sounds good. Did you get a continuity change with the primary rams not fully extended? If so, I will add a note on my diagram saying that roof up = continuity.

Can you take accurate measurements of the pin width and thickness? Then try to match up the sizes with pins on, say, a website like this or whatever Google directs you to in your country:

https://www.te.com/usa-en/plp/automotive-terminals/Y30g2.html?q=&n=127963&type=products&samples=N&inStoreWithoutPL=false&instock=N

Largest wire size seems to be 0.5 mm² (around 22 gauge, but 20 gauge will be fine if that's easier to find)

 

Yes. With rams fully extended, there was continuity, and within 1 or 2 seconds of top going down, reading went to OL

Roof ECU is at my warehouse, about 10 miles away, and I hope to get out there tomorrow to take measurements.

Not sure if they are round or square? Here is a link to a local shop with various connectors:

https://eagleday.stores.yahoo.net/connectors.html

Anything there look familiar?

 

Or not. If all your inputs check ok and your roof hydraulics work, then this may mean that your Roof ECU is broken.

https://eagleday.stores.yahoo.net/mablte37.html

Some of the male blades look a little on the chunky side. If "tab size" = blade width, the smallest seems to be 1.5mm wide. Best to get those measurements.

 

Not sure I understand? Do you mean prior to my remote install? If yes, it could be user error. I never knew that top should close right to the windshield header, so released the button long before I gave the secondaries a chance.

Of note, after I exercised my secondary rams a few times the fluid in my reservoir dropped to the min line.

Do you know if they are round, square, or rectangular?

Looking forward to executing your relay add on.

 

Ah, this could be the reason.

Actually, now I'm not sure if they are rectangular or round. I assumed they were the same as the same as the larger ones.

 

Can I use one of the removed OEM top relays for my project?

 

Yes, but it has an extra blade. If you buy a relay holder (socket), make sure it has 5 sockets.

Just don't use socket 87a.

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Following your schematic, with terminal 30 connected to power up on my remote, 85 to A05, and 87 to B13, should I expect to see continuity to ground (or 0 ohms) at terminal 86 when the power up button is pressed?

 

Ugh... Houston, we have a problem...

I just realised that the UP power (on the MOTOR terminal on the right in the photo) may not have a way to return to chassis earth/GND inside the remote controller.


Although the controller is powered via the VCC input (from the car's battery via the 30 amp fuse), the [MOTOR] power may be like having a second battery in a car which is only connected to one thing (which doesn't use the chassis as part of the circuit).
Not only this, I didn't consider what happens when the voltage changes polarity on the MOTOR terminals. At very minimum, I think a diode will be required on your new relay circuit.

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Then we have to figure out how the internals of the controller work. Hold everything...

 

OK. I think I understand...

I was having difficulty getting a ground output from 86. I connected 30 to motor up terminal, and then grounded 85 and 87 to test if I would get a ground signal at 86, but no such luck.

Then I thought 30 should be grounded and 87 should be the negative output, but that didn't work either.........

I thought this should be the schematic to send out a ground signal from a Bosch relay?

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on standby.......

 

I'm probably not explaining it well enough. It's the power side of things which will be an issue. With a regular car battery, you have a positive terminal wired to all the car's components. The power goes through these components and then returns to the chassis (earth) and then back to the battery (negative terminal). With this remote control system, we don't have the equivalent of a "chassis to negative battery terminal"

In answer to your question, with the new relay energised, there should be an earth on pin 86 and therefore A08 with the right main primary ram fully retracted (i.e. roof being closed).

 

Hmmmm....but we have the technology, right?? Is it possible to wire a permanent ground to one of the terminals of the relay? Or perhaps, I could disconnect the plug at the solenoid, permanently ground the red/black at the solenoid, and trigger a 12v+ signal from the relay to the solenoid?

 

If you were able to energise the relay above, you will join pin 86 to 85 (via the internal relay contacts). This will be shorting (MOTOR) power directly to earth (big bang). Fortunately, you need a positive and negative on terminals 87 and 30 to energise the relay. Your wiring won't allow this. You seem to have two negatives.

 

PLEASE disregard...lol....just realized that plane won't fly....sorry.

 

Yup, the old double negative....

 

Someone has the technology. I don't know if we have the technology or the knowledge to use that technology

I thought that hooking up our new relay to the UP (MOTOR) output would give us relay power only when the roof was being commanded up (good). If we hooked up the relay coil to a permanent 12 volts, the relay would be energised with the left primary ram fully retracted (good for roof closing), but, it would also mean that:
1) the relay would be permanently energised with the roof up and I don't know if that would be good for the relay.
2) if you opened the roof in a normal manner (i.e. unlatching the roof and pulling back a little), when the roof down command was given there would be a second or two before switch "S4" opened and the F1 valve would be energised. I don't know if this would cause the secondary rams to start closing the upper part of the roof or if it would force fluid into all the wrong places at high speed. If you look at the hydraulics diagram, opening the roof forces fluid out of the LH primary piston (green side of ram). Where would this go with the F1 valve open and the pump running in the down direction? Would the fluid go back into the reservoir or into the secondaries or somewhere else?

I'm not willing to experiment on your car. I don't know if you are

It's probably not as risky as I'm making it sound.

(EDIT: unfortunately, I think we've gone past the stage of asking for assistance from the forum experts... We've gone too far down the rabbit hole with our mods.

 

Agreed....

Any chance to partially employ the old ECU?