The (one and only) '0846' Debate Thread

I see. I did misunderstand you. Thank you for clarifying your understanding.

 

Absolute nonsense! My assessment is spot on. I am sorry that you only have one eye, which is all you need really. However, your problem is that you have a blinker over your remaining eye.

 

Auction houses are the only way these cars trade hands? No And the big cars seem to all change hands privately. I think the last 3 GTOs for examples sold privately.

It seems like Amelia invited the car this year. We will see if there is any drawback..
Im not saying this car will trade at the same valuation of the other P cars, but that if it did, Ferrari Spa blessing or lack thereof wouldnt really matter. After all, They themselves have showcased replicas in their own museum so it's one more instance of trust the experts...

 

I referred to it in the same context as the other P cars in the scenario where it would sell and achieve comparable $$ than any of the other P cars. No need to get all worked out.

 

You're doing it again. This is not a P car. It's a fake with a poorly/improperly mounted engine. It would only ever achieve a very small fraction of what a genuine P car would. The genuine Ferrari 3 litre 312 F1 engine would have some value on its own though.

 

again, whom ever is buying car at this level will do their due diligence and red flags are up everywhere.

Yes Ferrari has replicas on display in their museum, so does Alfa, Mercedes, Audi etc. the difference is the chassis is stamped as a replica, correct me if I’m wrong #125S90 the 90 designation of the year it was constructed. They are not claiming it is the original and openly admit it’s a replica.

 

I'm talking about a 250 swb California. Forgot which sn it is or supposed to be.

 

Is it just possible, Just, that Piper, being a racer didn't want a potentially damaged frame, and eschewed it in favor of a new one? Just speculating.

Perry

 

The dollar difference between "0846" and a replica chassis is easily in the seven or eight figures. The only remaining real P4 (the Stroll car) recently sold. The sales price is not public knowledge, but I have to guess it was an eight-figure sale.

 

I understand. When did the sale take place? Is it possible it could have been considered an old damaged race car, not worth continuing to race it? Perhaps not worth gigadollars yet. Just playing Devils mistress.

Perry

 

I am enjoying this revival.

reminds me of an old tale about some guy pushing a boulder up a hill for eternity.

 

LOL. Pictures from 40 years ago compared to a car as it sits today are not conclusive evidence. In any court of law the pictures presented would not satisfy reasonable doubt as the car could have been modified since then and the pictures would no longer be appliable.

The only way pictures from 40 years ago could be possibly valid is if the car appeared exactly as the pictures do with obvious reference points that match exactly.

And you call yourself a "Ferrari expert". Glad the value of my F-Cars is not based on your "expertise."

It's like 3500 GT said, nothing has been proven. All that has occurred up to this point is information has been gathered.

 

Miura doesn't have anything to prove. But it makes me laugh hard at how he indeed DOES NOT have anything to prove but is so desperate to prove it. And failing. As he has proven nothing. The only thing we have are pictures that do not exactly match a chassis that reasonably could have been modified in the 40 years since they were taken.

Pretty sure JG doesn't give two turds about proving anything to this group. He doesn't have to prove anything any more than Steve does. It's just that Steve is the one so desperately trying to do so. So I'd have to argue that your assumption is wrong. Steve does have to prove something, as he's the only guy desperately trying to do so. From what I've seen, JG could care less what you guys think or not. I don't see him here screaming at the rafters like Steve who has nothing to prove but is trying SO HARD to prove it. LMFAO.

Fact. You can say fact all you want, your facts are nothing more than your opinion. Nothing has been proven, it factually is still just a matter of opinion.

 

You couldn't be more wrong.

Glickenhaus spent years, decades even, countless posts and pages on Fchat ... DESPERATELY trying to convince us, the world, anyone who would listen, that his car is authentic. He even hired lawyers (!) to somehow "bolster" his case. To this day, he STILL advertises and parades the car as "authentic"

What was, and is, HIS motivation? Ego? Bank account? Who knows. But oh how HARD he tried, for years, to convince the willing ...

And guess what? After all his efforts and attempts, after accepting his burden of proof ... at least, for a while ... Glickenhaus has failed. Quite dramatically, in fact.

There's not even a shred of evidence left, now, to connect the car to 0846. The "proof of authenticity" is now entirely absent, which leads to one unavoidable conclusion: The car is a replica, and we all know it.

Glickenhaus can prove us wrong; the path to do so is obvious. Let's just stop pretending that he "doesn't care" if the car is authentic or not

 

@Vincent Vangool Your latest rants are laughable. Zero research as usual from you. You can't even comprehend that the last pictures of 0846 were 54 years ago, as it did not exist after it was dismantled by Ferrari after burning at Le Mans 1967 and definitively scrapped. I do not have a vendetta against Mr Glickenhaus, but you are clearly showing signs of having a vendetta.

It is also clear that you do not have the mental capacity to reason this out. Trying to educate someone like you is futile.

 

So, you put no weight behind Ferrari's official statement that 0846 no longer exists?

 

I'm going to stick up for Steve. As a member of the "Glickenhaus has threatened to sue you club," I fully understand what it means when a wealthy man threatens to sue you because he doesn't like your opinion. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm well aware of how our legal system works. Money talks, loudly. Maybe you should review this thread. Maybe you should wonder why, even to this day, so few people have spoken up. Maybe you should wonder why Jim Glickenhaus has disappeared from FerrariChat.

And, yes, I'm very aware that Mr. Glickenhaus will read these words.

 

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I agree, they are laughable as I am talking about the quality of your "factual conclusion" that is supported by your (AKA people too afraid to post publicly feeding it to you) "research" which, and I don't mean to be a jerk here or insult you, is amateur at best, it is a myopic vision that only looks at what you want to and would be shred apart in seconds by any half-rate night school lawyer, as the nature of your research is filled with reasonable doubt. All a Lawyer would have to do is ask you about the damage and repairs to the car and how they came about with verifiable proof of how they happened. As you have no knowledge of this, reasonable doubt would be established that the car today does not have to match those pictures exactly as it is obvious that repairs and modifications have been made to the current chassis and therefore can not reasonably be assumed to be the same as it was in 1967. Anything can happen to a car that would change it from pictures taken decades ago. Old pictures are not necessarily a factual representation of how a surviving car would look today. It's that simple and that clear cut.

What is laughable about my comment is your premise that a car that shows signs of crash damage/repair and modification would have to match pictures from decades ago. It wouldn't as there are clear signs of repair and modification of the chassis when JG received it from Piper. There is reasonable doubt that the car may have been repaired or modified since those pictures were taken BITD.

Now, I am not saying this makes it 0846 whatsoever, as I have for some time now, as I believe JG has neither satisfied reasonable doubt that his claim that it is 0846. IMO, neither of you have proved your case.

Again. You are making claims that you cannot back up. You don't know if the last pictures of 0846 were 54 years ago as you have yet to prove the car as it sits today is not 0846. Also you have zero proof that 0846 was definitively scrapped. That is making a claim you can't back up and therefore reasonable doubt again. Yes, Ferrari wrote 0846 off the books, I think we can agree that is fact. What is not backed up by proof is that it was destroyed and didn't make it out of the boneyard. A Lawyer could easily establish that many Ferrari cars over the years have been written off but still remained in the boneyard not being physically destroyed and therefore physically still exist even if not being recognized by Ferrari. And. I don't really care if Ferrari or the FCA or whoever recognizes it as surviving, the only thing I feel matters is if the Chassis still survives.

The only factual piece of information is that you have a Vendetta against JG. That has been clear from the beginning of all this and thus why your research lacks credibility.

Thanks for the insult. Glad to have reported it.

 

Do tell when the last time was that he came here to prove anything. IMO, he's not too concerned with what this group thinks, but too each their own. I don't know the guy and the truth is I don't know what he's thinking. But, if I were him I wouldn't bother with this peanut gallery, I'd spend my time enjoying the cars.

 

On the books? Or physically. Show me the proof where Ferrari scrapped the chassis versus just wrote it off the books.

 

Please tell me one incident where JG sued regarding 0846? I can't really take this idea seriously, as if he was going to sue Steve would already be on the chopping block. If Steve is so threatened by this, why is he still posting? Seems like an excuse to me. If you are telling the truth, and have the facts to back it up, then there should be no fear of litigation.

I'd have to guess that Glick left Ferrarichat for the same reason I would, a bunch of internet wannabe's continually harassing me. It's not like the guy is hiding out. He is publicly displaying 0846 at Amelia where he and many Ferrarichat members will be in attendance.

I have to say that I do respect you though. At least your man enough to admit you hate the guy but love the car, whatever it is.

 

Personal attack, 7-day thread ban.

 

Is it reasonable on this site to post a photo of a manipulative socio psychopath that knowingly and willingly was complicit and directly responsible in the murder of hundreds and hundreds of innocent people, and to conflate that murderer with a car, and the owner of that car, who also happens to be a member of this web site?

Why don't you post a photo of Pol-Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Mao or Andrew Jackson just to even it out?

Pretty sophomoric in my opinion.

 

I can’t remember posting in this thread but I have read it a lot.
I have little doubt that the car is a replica.

however when Texas Forever talked about the hypothesis of the chassis being rescued from the junk yard it rang a bell. After a search in my archives I found was I was looking for. I remember reading an article in the French magazine Ferrari Club years ago, here it is!

for non French speakers here’s a rough translation of the part on the second picture:

“there is in Italy a collector who owns the most fabulous collection of classic Formula 1s, including a Shark Nose […]. This discreet man refuses anyone having a look at his treasure.
A junkyard owner from the Modena area was regularly tasked by Ferrari to destroy certain prototypes, not sellable and not usable. He came to Maranello or Modena with his truck, loaded the designated cars, and transported them to his workshop where he cut it in pieces. He never did that last part. And he know owns a collection of unique cars, which he denies owning, refuses to show -even to his family- fearing a lawsuit from Ferrari.”

Ferrari Club n°7, page 146, May 2006

As usual this kind of stories is part myth, part reality. It won’t add anything to the 0846 case, but I think this article is a good addendum to Texas Forever’s hypothesis.

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