Well, we know that we can fool the OEM system into thinking that the seats are in the right position (by reattaching the pots and putting them in the fully forward position). All you would need then would be a new remote which talks to your OEM centre console roof switch plug and not your motor. i.e. any remote which produces two independent earths e.g. this (cheap and nasty looking ) light controller does: https://www.lightinthebox.com/en/p/dc12v-2ch-dc24v-dc48v-remote-control-switch-2-relay-with-10a-led-on-off-momentary-toggle-with-learning-code-receiver-433mhz_p7590643.html?currency=AUD&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping&country_code=au&utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&adword_mt=&adword_ct=457454515106&adword_kw=&adword_pos=&adword_pl=&adword_net=u&adword_tar=&adw_src_id=7679541699_10863878148_105785715974_pla-863009657701&gclid=Cj0KCQiAxoiQBhCRARIsAPsvo-wu-YX6xB44tqf4IpE_VOmfmP77bgFA7wbSVv1Np4BwZ7lFtngRBP4aArMzEALw_wcB If you were open to experimentation, I would suggest hooking up relay pin 30 to the fuse which has ignition key power on it to see if the secondary rams kick in the wrong direction during opening.
Very interesting.... Will give that a try. What is the purpose of the bypass switch sending a signal to A01/A02. Since my controller is removed and the roof works fine I can't find a reason? Main switch sends signal to controller via B03/B06.
It doesn't (send signals). Your ECU used to control the UP/DOWN relays via A01 & A02. The ECU signals flow through the bypass switches to the relays. I guess this allows the bypass switches to override any erroneous signals coming from the ECU. If you could find a remote as suggested above, you could plug it into A01 and A02 (instead of running wires from the console roof switch). You'd still need a circuit for the F1 solenoid. There may be a way of wiring up A05 or B13 directly to A08 for F1 control (no relay required), but it might still have the same potential kick forward during roof retraction. (EDIT: Another problem. I just realised that the F1 solenoid would be permanently energised with the roof closed using either method. We really need to deenergise the F1 relay somehow when the roof is closed)
I am open to this idea. Does it matter whether I wire to main switch or A1/A2 at plug....it would be easy to either one. Should I be searching for a 4 channel controller? What would wiring look like? By circuit to F1, do you mean output from A8?
It has taken a while, but it is finally sinking in. In order to send a ground signal to A8, I need to provide an dedicated/active ground from the up circuit of the motor. Wiring would look something like this? Image Unavailable, Please Login Then, if C1 is used for up control, I use NC1 to provide a ground to my A8 relay? Problem solved?
STOP THE PRESSES!! SUCCESS! All functions working properly! I filed down some male blade connectors (for a temporary test) to fit the plugs which provided a secure connection, and I wired the relay a little differently. I followed this diagram: Image Unavailable, Please Login Which correspondes to: 86 to switched power at up button relay 87 to A8 earth to F1 85 to B13 30 to A5 There was motor drag and fuse blew with the original wiring set up. Now, I just need to wait for the correct pins to make it a clean plug and play. The plug brand is AMP which is made by TE Connectivity and I think they have a male housing I can plug right into the chassis harness.
Strange. Just wondering if it has anything to do with the polarity of the flyback diode in the relay. In heavy duty relays, there is normally a diode across the relay coil to suppress sparks. Here's the wiring diagram according to your description. Image Unavailable, Please Login Basically you've just swapped over the coil wires and removed the B14 input. In this configuration, you've lost the automatic "motor off" function at full secondary ram extension, but you have the remote control button to do that anyway. I'm not sure how your remote is providing a return path to chassis for the circuit to be completed. Maybe it was before and there was something else causing the fuse to blow. During the roof down motion, the remote control input to the relay probably becomes an earth. I wasn't sure if this would cause problems in certain roof positions. Have you gone through a complete up/down cycle?
Thanks, I will keep that in my files. Any idea why the original diagram blew the fuse? Did we ever use B14? I assume that B14 lets the ECU know that top is fully up and the seats can move back? I did not blow the fuse before; I did not have good contacts with A5 or B13, so I substituted with chassis grounds and no blown fuse. Then I wired the system up the new way with success, and finally I went back to try the original way, but this time I was able to make good contact with A5 and B13; that's when the fuse blew? Sort of, not really.....LOL.....the correct pins will be here on Friday, so for the moment I put the cover back over the pump and decided to take a break. (there is no mating plug for the harness, no big deal.)
oops... Looks like it was another diagram I was working on (that I hadn't sent you yet). It was a version which would have stopped the roof motor at full secondary extension. It's the A5 signal which has been removed. No idea, and I can't say it won't happen again until you've gone through a complete up/down cycle. I thought the diode in the relay may have caused it, but in the original diagram it seemed to be in the right orientation to prevent a short. In the new diagram, I'm not so sure. Maybe it has blown. I can just imagine the headaches this system caused for the original designer.
Image Unavailable, Please Login This is a diagram showing the "flyback" diode in the relay shown in the WSM wiring diagrams. It's designed to stop sparks jumping across the relay contacts when they open/close. Because you've reversed the polarity of the leads, I don't understand how the coil is operating. The voltage coming in on 87 would short to 30 (earth) through the diode. Current flows through a diode in the direction of the arrow, but not in the reverse direction.
Perhaops Above from post # 106 Remote control power up switch is NOT coming in on 87, it is coming in on 86. 87 is ground signal out to F1. How does this change the dynamic? Also, when I used the original diagram, as mentioned, I use ground directly from battery and fuse did not blow. When I was finally able to apply proper grounds from A5 and B13 the fuse blew. Make any sense?
Yikes. If your relay energises, it will short out the remote control box when the primaries retract/roof up. Fortunately, your relay may not energise. The power from ignition is flowing through the F1 solenoid (red wire) to relay pin 87 (via A8), then possibly flowing through the flyback diode to pin 30 (Pin 30 is earthed with the left main piston extended). I guess I auto-corrected your diagram in my head. This is the setup you have now: Image Unavailable, Please Login Please don't leave it like this. It's basically the same as shorting out A5 to A8, which keeps the F1 solenoid energised when the primaries have retracted. This will leave the F1 solenoid powered with the roof up (getting very hot). I suggested previously doing this (very temporarily) in a roundabout way, just to see if there was a problem with sequencing. With your current setup, the remote control power has no influence on when the F1 solenoid is powered.
After further investigation, I see that (positive) power going to a relay solenoid (coil) with a flyback diode across it must go to pin 86. Some relays have resistors across the coil instead of diodes, and it doesn't matter if positive goes to 85 or 86. The symbol in the WSM appears to be for a resistor. Perhaps it should be a diode symbol, so you were right to swap over the solenoid wires. It may have been the cause of the blown fuse. Is there a graphic on the side of the relay which shows a diode? We may be ok to go back to the original diagram (with corrected relay pin numbers). Here's a diagram with your setup: Image Unavailable, Please Login Sorry, the diode is a little small, but it's pointing left to right. ... and sorry for the confusion.
No problems. I appreciate your diligence to attention. I would be spinning my wheels without you. Plus you are providing me with a free education. Bottom line, is my current set up OK to use There is no image on side of relay, but I found this View attachment 3282564
I'm still not 100% sure what happens to our circuit during the roof down cycle (when the polarity of the remote changes). I don't know what the internals of the remote look like. No longer are we only running a motor from the remote, we are supplying power to a new relay coil which is attached to the chassis (which is attached to the negative battery terminal). What happens to our coil circuit when the remove "MOTOR" polarities are reversed? I'm hoping that the internals of the remote stop it from trying to put a reverse polarity on the coil. Have you run the roof both with the battery and with the car running? Does the remote instruction manual show what it is normally used for? LOL.. The cathode (stripe) on the diode should be on the "86" side. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I don't have any intel to relay; While the relay gets power as soon as the roof closing sequence (up) has begun, the relay is not energized until the primary rams send their ground signal. Not sure I understand the concern? Here is the only info I could find for the RM800 (nothing useful):: RM800 This switch is use for controlling two way motor, using the included wireless transmitter. Control your motor with two different setting: on/off (forward/stop/reverse) or momentary (forward/reverse) kit include housing case with screws, 2 transmitters with batteries, instruction manual. specs: -For 12v application only, require a 12v dc power source to operate -If use with AC outlet, make sure to use an AC to DC converter or adapter, this is a DC switch, not for use with AC directly -Standby current 5mA -Max. load 30A@12Vdc -Dimension for receiver housing 4" x 2 5/8" x 1 1/2" -Receiver includes limit switch connector for motor that has built in limit switch function -Screw type connector for easy connection into motor and power supply, wires are not included -Transmitting range ~60ft in open space, signal strength depend on power strength on the relay and transmitter and RF interference in the area -3 button Transmitter: forward stop reverse -programmable transmitter and Receiver Remember I spoke with the owner of SolarVector who sells these to control solar panel motors.
No, I have not.....It was difficult to make good connections within the ECU harness plugs, so until the correct pins arrive (now on Sat.) I won't have any answers. If there is a problem, what would you expect? Back feeding to the relay with top down started? How can I identify a problem with test light and/or multimeter? If a problem exists, would a remote with 2 separate channels be the solution? Like this one:
Good point, but sometimes it's the microseconds (timing) between switch and relay positions which have to be considered... and the cascading effect when a component breaks down. I'm probably just overthinking things due to my lack of understanding of the circuits. My knowledge of motor and alternator design is limited. I still think the best solution is remote control through the console Roof switch. The Roof ECU takes care of all the unknowns. I'd have to read the instructions on that remote in the post above to make any sense of it. I assume the additional contacts for device limit control in a particular direction (or perhaps backup manual up/down switch control?).
I have no problem with that set up and the timing is not since I am changing my AC panel bulbs with LEDs. Just finish soldering in the STOP and RECIRC bulbs in; they look great. Should have the T4 neowedge bulbs tomorrow. Guessing that if we wire thru the console switch I would need to reinstall the roof ECU? Again, not a problem to place the remote module under a seat.
To keep this project within budget, we should probably stick to the current plan I'm also running out of brain cells. Nothing in life is guaranteed. I recall the Boeing 747 Maintenance Manual asked us to repeat checks 10 times on some critical systems. If no problems after 10 cycles... Also, it's good to take the super expensive/rare Roof ECU out of the equation (save it for a rainy day)
Success, with a minor caveat.....Repeated test cycles result in the top working perfectly. The caveat is with the connection to the ECU plugs: The plugs on the harness side house the female pins, but the plugs are referred to as male as they plug into the female receptacle of the control unit. I was able to obtain the correct male terminal pins from Mouser Electronics. Here is the data sheet https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/418/5/PN_CD_173682_C4_c-173682-1243123.pdf The problem is the male and female pins do not have any positive engagement; The plastic housing is what locks into the ECU. Therefore, the new pins do not lock into the plastic female plug housing. I have made every effort to make things as plug and play as possible and nothing has been altered or cut. What can be done to secure the pins? Is there some type of temporary glue, or silicone? Perhaps some type of putty? I guess I could use some type of tape?
I’m wondering if a layer of solder on the pin blades would help. I don’t know how much free play you have and if too much solder would damage the female side. If you used glue, I would worry that capillary action would suck the glue too far into the socket, both making the electrical connection poor and making the pins irremovable I had a quick search for electrically conductive threadlockers, but they seemed to be more of an epoxy glue in nature. e.g. Loctite 3888 https://www.emcstandards.co.uk/never-use-liquid-threadlockers-on-any-electrica
Time will tell: I used Loctite mounting putty. Hopefully, it will hold.....???? More tests and top works great! Thanks Ian. Image Unavailable, Please Login
It's good that you got the secondary rams working. At least they will be lubricated by the hydraulic fluid.
