The pre-race agreement i'm referring to, is the one quoted by the stewards when they denied Mercedes' protest after Abu Dhabi (the quote has been posted in this thread a few times). And once again, immediately following the crash ... when the safety car was deployed ... all teams expected the race to end under green, and they made pit-stop decisions accordingly. Two reasons for the expected green finish: First, the average safety car interval at Abu Dhabi was 3.2 laps (prior to 2021) ... well below the number of laps remaining in the race. Second, the pre-race agreement (quoted by the stewards) to end under green "if at all possible". Hamilton's team made a huge blunder to keep Hamilton on old tires, and they knew it. Hamilton knew it too ... you can hear it in the Mercedes radio communication.
"Ricciardo agreed that the Abu Dhabi incident was not grounds for Masi to be replaced. 'If Michael wants to stay then he should stay,' he argued."
I haven't tried to be unicivil, and don't know you it came across that way, but sorry if it felt that way. My answer to your question? No, Masi made the right call, and I'm far from the only one that feels that way. Masi had the authority to do, the stewards upheld his interpretation, it's final, and that's really all there is to it. Don't want to hear "let them race bolloxs"? Sorry, that's the way it is.
I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with that first part. Mercedes had every reason to think that given the title fight, Masi would not want the race to end yellow, especially over a minor incident. The fact that the situation turned Mercedes strategy upside down and left them in an impossible situation strategy wise, should not be something race officials take into consideration. Masi's motive in that moment was to look for a means to a green flag finish to the title fight. I actually think it was lost on Masi how old Hamilton's tires were to Max's, and how ugly Mercedes were already behaving on the radio. Had he taken those things into account, he'd have likely ended the race under yellow, imho. But thankfully he didn't.
It's interesting that people keep going on about Max "knew if there was contact he'd be champion", when Max actually raced Hamilton clean. Never came close to touching him. Masi actually threatened Max not to "run into Hamilton" before the race, or he'd have points deducted, so that the title could "fairly" go to Hamilton, making it clear to Max and Hamilton that Max was going to be held responsible for any incident between them. Notice how when Max gets inside of Lewis at turn 5, Lewis turns away to give him space, then realizing he's likely losing the title, he quickly turns back with Max already alongside, after he's already seen him? And the whole time he's looking in his left mirror? Kinda reminds me of a certain infamous onboard. Can't link it because of FOM, but just type in Hamilton Abu Dhabi onboard into YT.
Too funny! It was Hamilton that punted Max off at Silverstone, Bottas that punted both RB's off at Hungary, and Hamilton that swerved into Max like a madman coming out of the pits at Monza, for which Max was disgustingly faulted for despite the clear replay. And I question why Hamilton left the door so widely open at turn 5, then turned left at Max with the latter already alongside him. Reminded me of a certain infamous onboard from 1997 in Jerez. Trying to take Max out and hope the stewards blame Max again?
Hamilton questions almost every decision they make regarding pit stops, he has also some times ignored them. Also Marshalls was still sweeping and clearing the track on lap 56, and you can see them jumping over the barriers as the cars go past on lap 57, the safety car came out on lap 54..... car was removed by 56, and Masi made a choice to not let cars unlap as marshalls was still clearing / Sweeping the debris up as JP says in his analyses on f1's official website. obviously Masi didnt want to endanger the marshalls after one nearlly got ran over and it caused an uproar., which left one option to have green flag start, which was by leaving all the lapped cars in place, At first, thats what he decided, Untill after he spoken with Redbull. then Masi didnt do that one option but changed it and selectively allowed some of them to unlap breaking the FIA's international sporting code in the process by not treating all the drivers equally, he also stopped 3 other cars who had also pitted for fresh rubber from improving postion because he left them in the pack while allowing their compition to unlap and go 12 secs up the road in front of Hamilton knowing those behind ( Like DR on nice fresh rubber behind LH and MV ) would be blue flagged till the end ( Not including DR as he had front row seat to the " Im glad im not apart of that " ending ) while those he let unlap couldnt even improve position because they was allowed to unlap so would be unable to overtake till the safety car line before the finish as they was under yellow flag conditions till the restart line.... And you can quite clearly hear him ( LH ) say, like other drivers eg Stroll, that it was manipulated, and most drivers, and most teams, have also said Masi was wrong. Its even in the article you just posted, they are both admitting Masi made a mistake, but they feel he shouldnt be fired for it.... so, when are you going to accept that? Even Seidl says Masi made a mistake. Im quite sure you can find a quote from most teams and drivers apart from Redbull related ones, i dont think i have yet seen a single current driver or team member of any team saying Masi was right. Me personally, i dont see how he can remain long term as sporting director, next penalty or lack of penalty given and the controversy will start all over again. Ofc it depends on what happens with regards to the investigation and the out come and how this will be avoided in future. Will find out monday.
You make a very valid point here. Masi's future is in the balance because he has lost hiq authority and any future decision from him may be contested. He has brought discredit on himself, and that's an untenable position for any official, even more for the race director !
Ok fair enough, thanks for the clarification. . Well I'am not a betting man, but I'd bet my house on the opposite of that, the proposition that we would see another future race end in the same manner, in my view would be a very absurd notion. So if the rules remained as moving goal posts, I'd stop watching it full stop, and one can be sure F1's governing body the FIA are fully aware that a race ending like that, is seriously tarnishing the image of the championship. I haven't a problem with the result as it now stands, it's not Max's or Lewis's fault it's done and dusted, my issue is with the way the rules were seemingly abused and applied, (even if apparently allowed) as it leaves far too much room for race manilpulation, with nobody knowing what to expect it is hardly a adequate or fair way of governing the sport. I would at least expect some change and rule clarification, especially regards the last race SC issue.
Exactly my point of view ! Some think it's about Hamilton, but it isn't; it's about too much discretion accorded to the race director in some circumstances.
Fair enough. Because racing is complicated most motor racing sanction bodies have provisions in their regulations that allow their officials/stewards to alter race protocol, or apply regulations at their discretion and sometimes in ways that can be seen (rightly or wrongly) inconsistent to outside observers. Indycar/CART, IMSA, ACO, USAC, NASCAR all have these same provision in their rule books. It protects the sanction body from lawsuits over race officiating. It' not actual unusual and again, there were many instances this year were the officiating was applied in an unfair and inconsistent way. Bahrain was some of the worst officiating I've seen in a long time with the way track limits were incoherently not and then were enforced at random.
I find it interesting that Mercedes backed drivers like Riccardo, Stroll, Norris, and of course Russel are the one vocal and saying it was all so unfair, and the end of the world. Anybody who think the stewards were trying to "manipulate" the race for Verstappen are totally out of their ****ing minds.
Again, this isn't new authority to given to the race director. Most racing sanction bodies have similar provisions, because racing is complicated and each situation has multiple unique variables to them that must be considered.
The pro-Hamilton stewards fully supported Masi's decision. The stewards recognize: - The supremacy of 15.3, and the absence of the critical clause that you want to insert in section e) (a clause present in other sections, but absent in the relevant one) - The fact that 48.13 over-rides 48.12 - The fact that 48.12 "may" have not been fully implemented (no doubt due to the ambiguous language in 48.12) As i've stated, Mercedes' pit stop blunder ... and the radio communication where both Hamilton and the team recognize the blunder ... occurred long, LONG before any unlapping decisions made by Masi. It was simply way too late for Mercedes to go back and fix their huge mistake, by the time 48.13 was implemented. The pro-Hamilton stewards said that Masi was right. Yep, we'll see what happens. If rules are changed, that certainly tends to exonerate Masi (changing rules wouldn't address any "alleged" problem where Masi simply "went rogue" and broke the rules ... after all, new rules can be broken by a rogue Race Director just as easily as old rules). Sure, Masi may very well leave anyway ... maybe because of too many death threats from Hamilton fans, or maybe because Mercedes has threatened that Hamilton won't return if the scapegoat is still around. Time will tell.
Almost everything you've written about rules "as moving goal posts", too much room for "race manipulation", etc etc applies elsewhere as well. For example: Are drivers allowed to gain a position by leaving the track, or are they not? One can easily argue (as Ecclestone has done) that Hamilton gaining a position off-track in the first lap, was as "impactful" on the outcome of the race as the unlapping decision in the final lap. If inconsistency bothers you that much, you would have stopped watching F1 long before the final lap in Abu Dhabi.
Simple question. Does f1 sporting rules, Give an f1 race director authrority to over ride the FIA international sporting regulations that can only be changed by the FIA council with every team ( in every single racing series including Kart, WEC and so on ) having to agree BEFORE the season starts with them also only being allowed to change as long as it is done equally to all drivers and teams and that none are excluded and only for safety improvements? Yes or no? If you reply yes. then your letting your love for Max get in the way of rational thinking... as we all know, all f1sporting regulations and all staff inlcuding fia staff have to adhear to the fia international sporting code at all times. So no f1 rules or fe rules of wec rules or karting rules do NOT overide fia international sporting code.. why is it, the ruling body wants to make sure it never happens again? if he was allowed then its only common sense for it to be able to happen again right? How come in FE a few weeks ago, they had a race, safety car end, he let all lapped cars unlap and finished under yellows?, why did he not follow Masi's new rule? So why would they purposly put out a public statement to say it wont happen again? Its really making me discombobulated. Because you seem to think all was fine and dandy, and that Masi earnt a golden sticker for his awesomness, and that we can expect to see this type of safety car finish in the future which completely goes againts what the FIA have said since its 2nd public letter to its fans, teams, drivers, and sponsors, and what the the FIA president has said on nurmerous interviews since that it'll never happen again cause he is going to make sure of it... Its really combobulating me...
If Masi/FIA wanted to manipulate the race in Verstappen/Red Bulls' favour (or at minimum fairness) we'd have seen them order Lewis to give the place up on lap 1 and at least a SC for 2 stranded cars on lap 38. But that didn't happen. We saw the stewards say that lap 1 was completely fine (despite Max getting a 5 second penalty for the same offense, with a much smaller advantage, just 1 race earlier), and Wolff successfully manipulated Masi into not getting an SC. So if what Lewis fans are saying that this was manipulated for Lewis not to get #8, dethrone Michael, time for a new champion, or whatever conspiracy theory they dream up, the FIA/Masi did a fantastically poor job at orchestrating it. Unless of course they paid off Latifi to have a crash 5 laps from the end so they can then "manipulate" it anyhow. FIA's own ''crashgate". Yeah I think not. But now I've planted the seed, surely LH fans will start believing that. Damn.
Yes I agree there are certainly lots of variables with upteen scenarios, and yes inconsistant rulings have occured throughout, but heres the thing for me, this was a WDC race decider the spot light really was on it. So lets be clear there wasn't any conspiracy to let Max win, in my opinion Masi just got totally out of his depth, Horner and Toto certainly did not help in adding to his decision making diliema, the "let them race" is a cop out rebuff to Toto, coming from the pressure Horner was putting on him . Ok he tried to make the end of the race an exciting one, ok I can cut him some slack for that, but lets say for instance Lewis had pitted for new tyres, he comes out behind Max and then Masi follows the normal SC car procedure.....odds on for sure Max wins. I maintain Merc's decision not to pit Lewis was based on the correct interpretation and application of the SC rules. The ONLY thing Masi has achieved with his decision has been keeping F1 in the headlines for the wrong reasons, it remains to be seen whether he keeps his role and can he be trusted to do the right thing under pressure.
Decently balanced post BUT, the only thing I disagree with is Merc not pitting because they assumed correct application of the SC rules. With the average SC lasting just 3.5 laps, the mathematic odds where that the race was actually going to be restarted in time, and not gone to the end under SC. Mercedes realized this the moment they stayed out and Max pitted (hence their subsequent radios). What's more likely to have happened is Merc not wanting to take the risk of pitting and having another Monaco Bottas moment, or just a stubborn wheel or something like that, they didn't want to take that risk. Though they had the time to pit, it had to be a <2.5s stop to be safe if Max didn't pit (though possible this could've been longer, as the gap between them grew larger by the time Max got to the pit entrance, due to the time delta when an SC comes out). Had they pitted and executed a good (2.5s) stop, they'd come out ahead of Max regardless what Max did. Then Toto went on the line to try and make sure the SC stays out. Lewis pushed for the SC to drive faster (faster SC = less time to clean up = running out of laps quicker), Red Bull of course argued the opposite. With Toto & co also arguing successfully in their favour in both the lap 1 and Lap 38 incidents, Masi made a decision. Had Masi reacted a minute earlier everything would've gone exactly via procedure, and the exact same WDC result would've been there. The majority of LH fans would still call for the race to have been manipulated (because the rules state that unlapping is only an option, not a requirement). What many don't understand is that whatever decision Masi made, it would've been unpopular because of the hugely divisive F1 community. IMO, from the lap 1 and lap 38 actions alone, FIA/Masi had zero intention at all to "help" Max win a title.
SC comes out on lap 54, 3.5 laps later puts it at 57.5 laps, half a lap to unlap all cars + a lap to bring safety car in on the following lap if standard proceedure had been followed, Race should have finished under yellows... Thanks.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/f1-needs-structure-to-correct-fia-errors-says-mclaren/8133711/ F1 needs structure to correct FIA errors, says McLaren Formula 1 should create a system to ensure that the consequences of mistakes made by the FIA can be corrected more easily, reckons McLaren team boss Andreas Seidl. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login By: Jonathan Noble Feb 13, 2022, 8:05 AM With the controversy over the FIA’s handling of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix safety car restart showing no signs of calming down, there is an intense focus on the outcome of a meeting of the F1 Commission on Monday. There, the FIA is due to present to teams its findings from its investigation into the events surrounding the F1 season finale, as well as map out what it plans to do to ensure there is no repeat of the controversy in the future. But McLaren boss Seidl believes changes need to go far beyond looking just at what happened in Abu Dhabi, as he thinks there should be a wider overhaul of the way F1 races are run. And, in particular, he thinks some new processes should be introduced to make sure that, in the event the FIA or its stewards do make errors in the future, then there is an agreed system in place for them to correct any negative consequences. PLUS: What the FIA must do to restore F1's credibility “One of the beauties of the sport, not just on the team side but also the FIA side when it comes to the execution of races, is that it is a human sport,” explained Seidl. “So we need to accept mistakes can happen on the team side, but also on the FIA side – and mistakes can happen again. “For me it is very important that we also discuss that if you are in the position that mistakes happen, you actually raise your hand, admit them, and have a mechanism in place in order to correct the consequences that such mistakes or controversies could have. “That is as important as trying to avoid similar controversies in the first place.” Image Unavailable, Please Login Andreas Seidl, Team Principal, McLaren Photo by: Jerry Andre / Motorsport Images As well as the Abu Dhabi issue, one of the season-long talking points was an apparent lack of consistency in the application of the racing rules, which left teams, drivers and fans confused. McLaren was, in particular, quite baffled why Lando Norris was handed a penalty for pushing Sergio Perez wide at the Austrian Grand Prix, while Max Verstappen got away without any sanction for a similar move in Brazil.
