Michael Masi gets fired/replaced?

Rule 15.3 gives the Race Director overriding authority over the safety car, WITHOUT consideration of any other sporting regulations. Clear as day. The other sections of 15.3 must be carried out "in accordance with other Sporting Regulations" ... but NOT the safety car.

Read 15.3 again (or, for the first time), and notice the clause that is ABSENT in 15.3 section e) ... and you'll have your answer.

Then, maybe you'll understand why the pro-Hamilton stewards disagree with you.

 

Average being the operative word. i.e. every possibility that it would be shorter than that.

Ps 54 will be included as well, so that would be ON lap 57 the SC would come in, leaving 2 racing laps (57 and 58). Even without unlaps Max would win. lol.

 

Thanks Bas it's heartening to read you can at least see it from another perspective.

And likewise, so maybe somewhere in the middle of our posts lies the answer, I must admit I haven't done any in depth research into laps remaining and timings ect, so I would be unsure of what the possible outcomes could be. Thing is we will never know.

So I'am sure a few will be pleased to know, that suffice to say, I think I have, plus maybe a good few others, have flogged this subject to death, so it's onwards and upwards from me, and hopefully there will be some lessons learnt from it

 

Exactly this.

The subject is done to death, neither side will ever agree with the other I think. I do actually sympathize with Lewis fans somewhat that Lewis lost the title, it sucks for them after such a long season.

Time to move on for everyone. Rules will be clarified, grey areas sealed off. In a few years time I'm sure another scandal will erupt because of rules written poorly.

 

Can the FIA do something about what is considered a RACE under adverse weather conditions??? Spa 2021 was a farce. 2 laps behind the safety car!!!! REALLY!!!

 

I think the race organizers had quite a lot to do with that decision as well. i.e. if it comes to a law suit they could say that by law they had a race so don't need to pay out.

 

In any case, FIA's decisions shouldn't be dictated by Liberty's commercial interests, no more than by pressure from the teams.

When it's too dangerous, like in Spa, the race director shouldn't shy away from aborting the race.

It's up to Liberty to have contengency plans to deal with such eventuality: cancellation and refund, postponement, reschedulling, etc ...

Wise event organisers take insurance for such risks !

 

No disagreements there.

 

It doesnt say that......

15.3 The clerk of the course shall work in permanent consultation with the Race Director. The Race
Director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk of the course may
give orders in respect of them only with his express agreement:
a) The control of practice and the race, adherence to the timetable and, if he deems it
necessary, the making of any proposal to the stewards to modify the timetable in
accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations.
b) The stopping of any car in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations.
c) The stopping of practice or suspension of the race in accordance with the Sporting
Regulations if he deems it unsafe to continue and ensuring that the correct restart
procedure is carried out.
d) The starting procedure.
e) The use of the safety car.

It says he may overide the clerk of course, but that he is to adhear to the sporting regulations, which also must adhear to the fia's international code, he has power over the safety car, not the proceedure around its use and the regulations that control its use, if the clerk says no SC, he can override and say yes, if the clerk says its safe, he can override and say it isnt, his duty is that of safety only, he isnt a technical regualtor or a sporting regulator, as the FIA council is the sole regulator of the sport and all its series it controls, its essential that the racing director adhears to the rules for the sake of the sports integrity.

2.1 All drivers, Competitors and officials participating in the Championship undertake, on behalf of
themselves, their employees, agents and suppliers, to observe all the provisions as
supplemented or amended of the International Sporting Code (the Code), the Formula One
Technical Regulations (Technical Regulations), the Formula One Financial Regulations (Financial
Regulations) and the present Sporting Regulations together referred to as “the Regulations”


This regulation over rides 15.3, as Masi is supposed to adhear to that regulation up above at all times, which directly refers to the FIA international sporting code, which means any of his actions must comply with FIA international sporting code EG he has to treat all drivers as equals, be fair and sporting blah blah blah, he didnt. here is two f1 sporting regs...

Article 48.12
The message “lapped cars may now overtake” has been sent to ALL competitors.
Rule breach 1

“Once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the FOLLOWING LAP
rule breach 2.

 

Wrong again, that leaves none, 1 lap for unlapped cars, and another lap for the safety car to come in as written in the regulations and also stated in 15.3
1 " ensuring the correct restart procedure is carried out

so includes

2 “Once the last lapped car has passed the leader the safety car will return to the pits at the end of the FOLLOWING LAP - 2nd lap......

 

Always changing the the goal posts ahh??

 

Until Spa I thought that the farcical 2005 USGP would never be topped--I was wrong.

 

Actually, the only hand Mercedes could've possibly played was not pitting at all. The risk of something going wrong in the pits was too great, which is they passed up the VSC opportunity to pit as well. Once Mercedes passed on that, they had committed themselves. Even if when the SC came out they knew for sure that the race would be restarted with lapped car waived by, they would've still been foolish to pit, as Max would've then stayed out and made his car wide for the restart. They were at the point of no return on their one stop strategy with the stakes being what they were.

One thing people are not talking about enough (besides Ham's bad defending that even Riccardo pointed out) is how a SC was clearly called for when Kimi and Russell were simultaneously stranded, and a VSC was used instead, which was unsafe considering two car were stranded at once. Masi was not following SC protocol there, either, and wouldn't you know it, he had been pressured by Toto "Michael, no safety car. It will interfere with the race".

Put yourself in RBR's shoes for a second and imagine the race ending and Lewis winning the WDC, after Lewis had cut the course for the exact thing Max got a penalty for in Jeddah, a SC not being used when one was called for at 27 after Toto had told Masi "no SC, please", and then when a SC does come out with 6 laps left, Masi inexplicably doesn't let the back markers by when it's time to do so, and the race ends that way.

Yeah, they'd have had much stronger grounds to accuse bias in the race directing and stewarding booths to hand Hamilton the title than Mercedes have right now.

 

Yeah, no, USGP 2005 was way, way, way worse.

Not even close.

 

LMFAO!

Really? And just how would this work?

Ok, leading driver gets a stop and go penalty during the race. Afterwards, it's determined the stewards didn't follow precedent, and should've not issued the penalty. This has happened hundreds of times before.

How the hell do you reverse that? Time travel to give the driver their lost lead back? Can you make the Earth rotate backwards? Once it's done, it's DONE.

Errors in officialdom being largely irreversible have always been apart of racing, and always will be. This is something kids in karting learn early on. It's part of what makes racing unique among other competitions.

 

Quite literally impossible. The moment X penalty is given, EVERYTHING is off the table, strategy, time loss behind other cars and so on...What will they do? "oh driver X is 0.56% faster than his teammate, so minus the 30 seconds, minus time loss, combined with the faster race pace, he who finished 9th is actually the declared winner!

What a BONKERS statement from Seidl.

 

No, just correcting your wrong statement.

1) Unlapping can happen before the end of SC period.

2) unlapping like I said wasn't a requirement, so even if they didn't allow the unlap, with 2 full racing laps to go, Max would likely have won anyways given he was on new tyres and the red bull switches them on very quickly, and blue flags for the unlapped.

 

This is ridiculous,
Some clearly have lost their minds since Abu Dhabi ..

 

That last race came down to tyre strategy and Mercedes got caught out just like Red Bull had on some previous races.

Period. End of story.

Next topic?

 

What some what would like to say is that they feel that given that Hamilton dominated the race, the only "fair "thing to do was to let the race finish under yellow, so he would win the race and championship, which is of course totally illogical and incompatible with racing.

 

Yep.

Had they taken the pitstop at the VSC, they would've lost no track position, and had 20 lap old tires, as opposed to tires that were 40 laps old, and been in a position to properly defend from any SC period late in the race where Max got new tires.

Why in the world they passed that opportunity I can only guess, was down to Toto and Bonnington having concerns over the Mercedes pit crew fumbling in the pits, and losing the title that way instead of out on the track.

There was, IMHO, an understanding on the Mercedes pitwall that after their pitstop at lap 14, they were never going to pit Hamilton again, no matter what happened, and it sure sounded like Hamilton was unaware of this commitment if you listen to the radio.

 

Is this personal attack ?

Cant count the times I have been the recipient of such comments.

If you dont mind can I copy and past the comments and the ban for the next time it happens to me ?

 

First, 15.3 does not limit the power of the Race Director ... instead, it limits the power of the race clerk.

Second, 15.3 doesn't merely give the Race Director "over-riding authority over the race clerk" ... instead, it gives the Race Director "over-riding authority in the following matters": e) "the use of the safety car." This over-riding authority includes, but is NOT limited to, an over-riding authority over the race clerk.

Third, the "over-riding authority in the use of the safety car" is NOT limited or restricted by the phrase "in accordance with the sporting regulations" ... a limitation clearly present in a) thru c), but conspicuously absent in d) and e).

Finally, "over-riding authority in the use of the safety car" includes both the deployment of the safety car, and its withdrawal. This also covers any decisions regarding unlapping ... a procedure that only happens during the safety car interval. In other words, "unlapping" falls under section e) of rule 15.3, not section c) as you're trying to suggest.


Simply put: The Race Director has over-riding authority in the use of the safety car ... including any unlapping procedures ... with no restrictions or limitations concerning "other sporting regulations".


You're clearly trying to read limitations into 15.3 that just aren't there ... and that's why even the pro-Hamilton stewards disagree with you.

 

Masi messed up big time ,...otherwise why the big investigation and people wondering wtf was Massi doing? He went wayyy above his pay grade and "brought F1 into disrepute".

Back to Ozzie rules V8 and his barbies.Good riddance .

 

Omg, your so right.. The sport is just trying its hardest to make sure it has a tiny bit of sporting integrity left because it hasnt just had its reputation smashed to pieces...

Ok LOL

agreed...