Looking at this 1978 308 GTS... is this price reasonable? | FerrariChat

Looking at this 1978 308 GTS... is this price reasonable?

Discussion in '308/328' started by Rilez, Feb 13, 2022.

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  1. Rilez

    Rilez Karting

    Jun 24, 2020
    138
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    RILEY
    Hi. I've been looking for a while for a blue 308/328 and this popped up right at a dealer less than a mile away.
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    https://www.rpmmotorcars.com/used/sherman-oaks-1978-ferrari-308-gts-308gts25115

    I test drove the car, no issues, everything works except AC doesn't blow cold, and recent service was done by the shop by a mechanic they said is a Ferrari expert but no luck googling him (Paul Herman?). Dealer said he'd service the AC and also make sure the car was smog legal before selling. He said the original owner has all the paperwork but hasn't been able to send it to them yet... sounds dubious, but the dealership seems legit. The service they just did when they acquired the car included timing belt, coolant pump, new starter, and new cam shaft bearings.

    I know the carb cars are more valuable, and the market's crazy right now, but was really hoping to find one a lot cheaper than this. I've been watching every car listed here and also on BaT, Hemmings, etc so I have a decent sense of the current market, just not an expert. I know my issue is that I want this color, but I'm trying to look at this realistically... as I know there are way better deals but they're all red cars. I've never owned one of these, but I do have a 74 Pantera so I'm not afraid of work that needs to be done to an old car either, and want a driver, not a trailer queen.

    Thoughts? Advice? Is it worth it? or at what price would it be worth it.. with and without the service history if he's able to get it? I know that makes a difference with these cars. Thanks.
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Its a nice looking car but it is missing smog equipment. As difficult as it can be to get a 308 with carbs through smog in California, and remember it will not get easier, only harder you might reconsider getting a carbed car. If you do I'd sure want to be present when it is done to be sure it really passes and some one is not just paid off. You do not want the headache when either it needs to be renewed or you decide to sell.
     
    Brian Harper likes this.
  3. Rilez

    Rilez Karting

    Jun 24, 2020
    138
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    RILEY
    Yeah, the dealer said he’s talked to the mechanic and it would be installing all the smog equipment not just a “friendly” pass.
     
  4. Dave Bertrand

    Dave Bertrand Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 24, 2005
    770
    Castle Rock, CO
    Even with smog equipment installed and working A/C, that's an $85k car, tops. RPM has always been pricey compared to actual market.
     
    PeterS likes this.
  5. Rilez

    Rilez Karting

    Jun 24, 2020
    138
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    RILEY
    That was my actually my first impression -- offering him $85K and see how insulted he gets. Could go a little more considering it's in my backyard, and I don't have to ship it etc. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy; I don't want to the be the annoying lowball guy, I've been on the other side too.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Do not pay a dime until smog equipment is installed and smog cert present. Seen way to many games played there. They may try real hard to get deposit. Legally that car should not even be on the floor for sale. Against the law in California unless it has a big sign stating it isn't for sale in CA.
     
    thorn, lm2504me and Rilez like this.
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #7 Steve Magnusson, Feb 13, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
    That's not just missing some smog equipment -- it's missing ALL the smog equipment (and the rear diaper ;)). I don't see how that could all be replaced for less than $8K~$10K. Also, the electrical tape bundle next to the coils would worry me some -- like it has some poorly installed R1 only aftermarket system. I'm a believer that every car has a fair price regardless of its flaws -- but that price is perfection for a car that isn't. (And the camcover acorn nuts on the airbox lid are a sin!)
     
  8. s219

    s219 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2021
    411
    If that is the car's actual license plate with expired 2013 registration, it may indicate it hasn't been registered/driven for many years. I saw that a lot when I was shopping around, and it generally always correlated with red flags and issues. Have you tried looking up the VIN? I did not see it on the listing and their Carfax link was broken, but I'd be curious to see if anything turns up with some searches on the VIN.

    It's a pretty car but the price is $15-25K high to me, pending the other issues that have been raised.
     
  9. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    It's in the listing (and even in the link), but it predates when the standardized 17-digit VIN was required so isn't much use -- 308GTS25115 (my ex-308 VIN was 308GTS25375 so I know this model well ;)).
     
  10. rocket50

    rocket50 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 9, 2004
    1,240
    Nashville
    Full Name:
    Rod
    PPI a must on any older exotic. Best $300 you can spend. May save you thousands.
     
    dinogt4guy likes this.
  11. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Oct 9, 2016
    3,434
    SO CAL
    Full Name:
    GINO RUGGIERO
    #11 ginoBBi512, Feb 13, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
    Offer him 50 k, thats all its worth, its that simple.Or spend your 85k on a 328 thats well sorted, its a better car anyhow . My 89 passes smog ,( Im in CA, ) and its got 104,000 miles on the clock.

    Thank you
     
    Du_Man likes this.
  12. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

    Jun 29, 2004
    308
    Mid West
    Full Name:
    Paul John
    As others indicate, looks like most of the emission equipment is gone: besides the air pump, the canister and control valve that should be on the right side (near the expansion tank under the hood) are also missing. The exhaust looks like a non-cat SS version from SuperFormance from the UK, I bought one from them.

    From the pictures, it appears somebody added a set of OEM 16" wheels... worth a small fortune in themselves, although technically not an option for a MY1978. I see it as a nearly $5k bonus and if desired, 14" wheels are easy to find.

    Questions I would have that move the needle regarding price include: Does the car have: 2 sets of original keys (Nieman and SAFE), the factory pouch with the Owners and Warranty Manuals, Complete toolkit and Jack-Kit Roll, Emergency Light, and an OEM spare wheel and tire. If it has all these items, and it's a one original-owner car, and if RPM can secure the paperwork before the sale... the price is getting close to reality.

    Based on the age and indicated miles, it looks like the seats, and maybe door panels, may have been recovered. They look nicely done, but it would be good to get the steering wheel and shift knob (possibly chrome trim finishes) up to snuff.

    All that said: If this is an original Sera Blue GTS, I feel it's "priceless." Why? I'm a guy who "saved the world" from another RED 1979 308 GTS... and painted it Sera Blue (& not an amateur quick color change) So @Rilez, if you can figure out the CA smog stuff... it would be a most beautiful Carb'd 308 GTS!
     
  13. Octonion

    Octonion Formula Junior

    Dec 30, 2020
    309
    USA
    So the resale red theory does not apply to 308s? :)
     
  14. ProvaMo

    ProvaMo Formula Junior

    Jun 29, 2004
    308
    Mid West
    Full Name:
    Paul John
    @Octonion, it probably does, my painter said "Painting your original Rosso Corsa Red 308 will decrease the value by $10k!" I said: "Really, only $10k, I was expecting $20k down... so this is a bargain to have Sera Blue 308!"
     
  15. Rilez

    Rilez Karting

    Jun 24, 2020
    138
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    RILEY
    @ProvaMo I have thought about buying a red one and repainting it blue myself! I figured that's heresy so I was looking at cars that already were resprayed... like one of those ones at BH Car Club. I know their reputation but I figured if all I care about is a driver, then maybe worth taking a risk on of those. But good to know somebody else has done it. As for your other questions -- it does have tool kit, spare, only one set of keys, but no manual (he said it's with the owner's paperwork which he's waiting for).

    @rocket50 yes, I would absolutely do a ppi, and have already looked around for the places in the area to do it.
     
  16. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    #16 BigTex, Feb 14, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2022
    IMO only, you need to understand the early cars..
    (EDIT) The RPM Motorcars I know was in Vermont, not this dealer)

    A 1978, which requires Catalytic Exhaust to be legal, is the less desirable than say a 1977 NON CAT car or a steel bodied 1976.

    At this point I don't think you COULD restore the early air injection cam driven smog pumps.
    Norwood or maybe it Bob Smith or ??? has replicated the air injection function using an electric air pump.
    That seems more reasonable to me.
     
  17. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    Look for my old red/black #20405....it was originally blue!!

    Gullwing Motors purchased it years ago.
    It was a NON CAT 1976 steel body North American spec.

    I had my blue #22641 so was not that excited about a total Ferrari paint job...(expensive then and MORE so now!)
     
  18. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    As our cars moved from $25K to $30K cars, up to closer to $100K now, ANY deviation from Factory color (unless it's a very well done job to another period color ) is gonna be "decrease in value" how much is subjective.

    I purchased #20405 as red, and only after looking at some details could tell it had been injured (lost history) and changed at some point to red.
     
  19. Rilez

    Rilez Karting

    Jun 24, 2020
    138
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    RILEY
    I would prefer a later car with fuel injection if I'm being honest, QV or even a 328... but really my two main sticking points are that it's blu chiaro with tan interior and a GTS.

    Yeah, and a good repaint is not any cheaper now either!
     
  20. cmt6891

    cmt6891 Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
    1,334
    Encino, Ca
    Full Name:
    Carl T
    Love the color combo. Your 2 main sticking points drastically limits the ability to find a well sorted example. I would want to see all the paperwork, most importantly the "recent belt service and etc." Certainly the milage seems to hold true based on appearance. The intereior looks likely original and in great condition.

    I live 3 miles from the seller. I'l try to find time in the next few days to have a look.
     
  21. Rilez

    Rilez Karting

    Jun 24, 2020
    138
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    RILEY
    Yeah, I know! I'm my own worst enemy. ha! My Pantera is red and I swore I'd never own a red car, but couldn't pass it up. I'd have to find a STEAL to get a red 308. Definitely curious what your thoughts are on the car.
     
  22. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    #22 dwhite, Feb 14, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2022
    I don't think color changes really diminish value like people say. If I was looking for a blue car, much more rare than red and a beautiful one was available and it was a repaint it would not bother me.

    Early metalic paint would start to crack by now and probably would need some attention. A high quality repaint can be far better than factory and if done to a color I liked I dont care, but I buy cars to enjoy and drive. However every car I have bought, color change or not has sold for more than I paid for it. Probably because condition is quite important in the purchase of classic cars. Just saying.

    Good luck to the buyer. Sometimes I have paid more for something than trying to get "the best deal" because I loved it. A few grand here or there in the fcar world is peanuts and you will find that out over time. I work on my own cars and even the parts add up quickly so don't get concerned over a few bucks. Wasting years looking for that great deal has screwed more guys on here than they care to admit.
     
  23. PeterS

    PeterS Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 24, 2003
    47,933
    Goodyear, AZ
    Full Name:
    PeterS
    Have you looked at a 360? More car for less $$$. This was my dilemma when scouting as I had owned two 308's prior, they are simply beautiful cars. I went with a solid TDF / Tan 2000 F1 360 with 36K miles a couple months ago @ $70K. Buyer was in a corner with a new Porsche on the way so his original $85.5K went down the toilet. IMO, I'd wait for the right car and keep emotions out of the buying decision.
     
  24. 308 milano

    308 milano F1 Veteran

    Jan 15, 2007
    5,257
    Montana
    Full Name:
    Kim
    I don’t know. Sold my 84 GTB QV because I thought I wanted a 360 Modena coupe. Took me about seven months to realize I made a terrible decision. Spent the next seven months looking for my 85 Euro GTS and really haven’t given the 360 a second thought. Although a terrific car in its own right. My purchase was based on emotion, very similar to buying art. :)
     
    thorn likes this.
  25. Rilez

    Rilez Karting

    Jun 24, 2020
    138
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    RILEY
    @PeterS Never been a fan of the 360s. In general, styling of the newer cars don't appeal as much to me (although I do like the Roma), and the 308/328 is my favorite model except for the Dino which is in my top 1-3 cars of all time. I also like the 348/355s, but still not quite as good-looking to me.
     

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