That is great to hear, and I am happy you are back in the dialogue. Can you shed some light on how you came to select the Denso 129700-3630 coils? The first criterion would obviously be fitment; but what about the resistance? Is the goal to match the resistance from the OEM coil pack? Or is the goal to match them to the MSD? My primaries measure at 0.6 ohms and my secondaries at 13,700. The 3630 are harder to find and more expensive than 4400 which are the same length, but different resistance ratings: 129700-3630 1.3 Ohm's primary (Service Manual .85 Ohm's to 1.15 Ohm's) 9.2K to 13.8K Ohm's secondary, Length 127.7mm (5") Used on 1999-2003 Kawasaki Ninja ZX9 129700-4400, 1.5 Ohm's primary, 10K - 15K Ohm's secondary, Length 127.7mm (5") Used on 2001-2003 Suzuki GSXR600, GSXR750 2001-2008, and 2001-2007 GSXR1000 I like this set up and simple enough to make.
Jeff, I won't be any help to you as you are far ahead of me on this CoP issue and electrical devices in general. I have given no thought to resistances and the like. My coil recommendation came from some experienced, professional, Drifting team and the intriguing part to me was that there are units that combine with triggers that I understood eliminates the need for an MSD DIS BOX (or two) and associated wiring. I'm still very interested but smarter people than me will need pave the way.
I don't remember the exact conversation but, in review of my post on the subject, I see that they use the coils from a Nissan GTR. I believe that I then looked up what coils that would be because I ordered a Hitachi IBC0079 to fool around with and check if the coil would reach the spark plug if mounted exturnally on a new plug cover plate (the existing Ferrari cover plate could be used if you didn't mind defacing the original with 4 coil holes). The coil has just sat here because I would have to remove the plug cover and corral all of the loose stand-off bushing when the rear deck of my car doesn't allow decent assess. I should have checked it out while I had the back off of the car for the TPS work but the back will come off again when I take the car back for dyno tuning.
For me it wasn't even that complex, perhaps a bit of luck.... I was more concerned about getting identical cops than their resistance. I had never actually measured them. I was depending on the MSD to co-operate with them once wired up. I believe the MSD box can fire a wide range of different coil resistances. I didn't have to worry about the stock Ferrari drivers need as it only supplied the signal to the MSD. The MSD took over the duties of sending the signal to the individual cops.After I got everything hooked up and wired the first time, all seemed to work very well. I would imagine that mixing resistances would not be a good idea, especially because of the wasted spark where 2 plugs fire at the same time during an engine cycle. That's why I wanted the exact same part numbers on the plugs when I was gathering them up from salvaged motorcycles. They were cheap enough ( back then) to find a good height, once I found one that would physically work, I sought out 7 more identical cops from the same make, model and year motorcycle that had the exact same DENSO part number. I think I ended up buying like 25 or so cops to end up with my 8.
Wow, the cost of the parts you outlined on page one have more than doubled in 18 years! The DIS4 is $850, COP are $175ea (new).
The coil that OP used is Denso 129700-3630 for Kawasaki Ninja motorcycle. The Kawasaki part number is 21171-1265 and aftermarket ones can be found on ebay. Here is one for 29.99 each and discounted for quantity (213.52 for 8): https://www.ebay.com/itm/302869755041?hash=item468471b4a1%3Ag%3AOGwAAOSwRtNbji9n&LH_ItemCondition=3 The specs for 129700-4400 are similar and I am trying to find out if they would work. They are for Suzuki GSXR bikes and Suzuki part number is 33410-35F11. They are a bit cheaper. (150.90 for 8): https://www.ebay.com/itm/194735537203?hash=item2d57247c33%3Ag%3AtHkAAOSwollh4PSr&LH_ItemCondition=3 Is MSD the only game in town?
I would hesitate to use generic aftermarket ignition parts without some feedback from other users. On the BMW forums, the history of aftermarket ignition parts is not good...to include coils, cam shaft sensors, crank sensors, knock sensors, etc. Sometimes they are bad right out of the box, other times failure only days or weeks later. Just a lot of hassles with returns/exchanges and most just end up buying the factory parts.
Excited to dive in the pool and make this upgrade. Following Jeff's original instructions, along with a few improvements. Like Jeff, I have a 5.2 car; cannot comment on whether this will work on 2.7? Shopping list: (1) MSD-DIS4Plus Ignition module: do not buy used! (8) Pencil/stick coils. I found two choices Denso #129700-3630 same as Kawasaki # 21171-1265 or Denso #129700-4400 same as Suzuki # 33410-35F10 (8) NGK spark plugs CPR7EAIX-9 Will explain. Do not buy online; lots of fakes! (8) Pensil/stick coil connectors (I bought these: https://store.schnitzracing.com/schnitz-stick-coil-connector-kit/) (2) Male 3 Way Junior Power Timer Connectors; To connect MSD to OEM coil pack connector. (I bought these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/203913939128 ) (2) Male/female 4 pole weatherproof connector; will explain (1) 20' High temp shielded teflon coated 16ga/2 pole wire; McMaster Carr # 8219K64 In addition, I added a 2 pole connector for the power and ground wires, assorted connectors and heat shrink tubing.
NGK tech support provided an excellent education and helped me select the best (or better) option for spark plugs. You can go to https://www.ngk.com/compareproducts for plug comparisons. OEM NGK plugs for 5.2 cars is PMR7A (4259) Laser Platinum. The top terminals are solid tip, not removable (cannot be unscrewed), and will not work with the stick coils. The coils require a threaded stud terminal for attachment. Jeff used NGK CR7EIX Iridium which have a removable tip and threaded stud underneath. Jeff has been using these for 18 years with great success, but you will note in this picture they are shorter: Image Unavailable, Please Login NGK specs list both with a 19mm reach, but the OEM plug has a projected tip and the Iridium is non projected, thus a tad shorter. The NGK tech felt this was the better choice: NGK CPR7EAIX-9 Iridium is correct 7 heat range, 19mm reach, threaded stud terminal, and a projected tip. Image Unavailable, Please Login I bought a set of these on ebay for 40% off; what a deal!! Until I read about fake NGK plugs. A simple search revealed the differences and the ebay plugs were fake. NGK sells directly to the big retailers like AutoZone, Advance, and O'Reilly. Or, you can buy direct from NGK.
The MSD-DIS4 Plus has 7 adjustable rotary dials for programmable features. Only 3 of these are pertinent for this project. Image Unavailable, Please Login The first dial, from the left, must be set to position #1 for Waste Spark firing. Even though we are converting to eight individual coils, there are only 4 channels from the 5.2 ECU for the factory dual coil packs, therefore, the MSD must be set for WS on, position 1. Dials 2 and 3 are for nitrous and not active unless power is supplied to the auxiliary pink wire. It does not matter what numbers these are set to. Dials 4 and 5 are for 2 step rev limit for track use. These are not active unless power is supplied to the auxiliary blue wire, Again, it does not matter what numbers these are set to. Dials 6 and 7 are your rev limit settings. I set dial 6 at 8000, and dial 7 at 500 to match the factory red line. I have heard that fuel cut off is at 8,700, but I won't be driving near that number. You can set these to whatever values you are comfortable with.
7th⁶ while I have not yet jumped in to the CoP modification I appreciate the deal that you are providing and hope that you up-date us on your progress and finding (generally reported better starts and smoother acceleration etc.). I wonder what your approach will be to the CoP length requirement. I believe that Jeff had aluminum spacer plates made to raise the stock plug covers. Thanks for the info.
Thanks for your efforts and illustrations concerning a CoP conversion. I may have this wrong but, to this point, I have been under the impression that Stick Coils can be obtained with built in amplifiers making the MSD box unnecessary. Wouldn't that be the way to go?
I don't believe there is a "perfect" coil length that will allow stock plug covers to sit snug in position. Both of the coils I mention are 5.0" long and stand proud of the cover. Jeff's spaces are simple to make and retain the original look, but I am concerned that the coils might get too hot? Since he has reported 18 years of good service, perhaps that is much ado about nothing? Perhaps someone with greater knowledge can chime in? Another even easier solution, is to add stand offs for each screw; this would allow air to circulate in the plug valley. Downside to this idea to water ingress. I don't drive my car in bad weather, but I do wash it....??? What might be really cool, it to make new covers with key holes that would allow the coils to sit on top, and the wires to route below. This "style:" Not that hard to do. Could find a pair of used plug covers or make some up. Downside is the loss of Ferrari and Cinquevalvole' inscriptions. So, to vent or not to vent??
I noted the projection issue back in 2006 (post #193 in this thread), glad someone figured out what the correct plug is. Nice work. BTW, you can safely buy NGK plugs on Ebay, but you must verify your seller. I have done this with "partscontainer", and only buy from them on Ebay. They are an authorized reseller of NGK, Bosch, and many other parts at great prices. Been buying from them for 12 or more years now.
Someone else will have to comment on that. Sounds like a good idea, but not sure how you would split the ECU's 4 channel signals to accommodate 8 individual coils? Do you know of an amplified coil that would work for our application? And cost?
My situation is a little different. My engine (total drive train for that matter) is from a 355 and there are already 8 coils but they are positioned across the back of the car. So, my 4 outputs have already been split to feed 2 coils. (See photo) The Hitachi IGC0079 coil was recommended to me by a professional Drift Team who prep their own engines. I believe that they have the amplifiers. I am running 1/2" aluminum standoffs under my plug cover plates to allow the plug wires more separation but that would work to cool coils situated under the cover. (See photo) Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
My car is definitely not a daily driver and I am NOT concerned with rain. If I go with CoP there will be new cover plates machined to accept the coil and it's threaded mounting holes.
I find it odd that the 360 motor shown is so similar to the prior 355 model and yet very few parts are interchangeable (like cam and plug covers etc.)
Before constructing the harness to connect from ECU/COPs to the MSD, I needed to mount the MSD. Like Jeff, I chose the area between the taillights and the left rear wheel well, just above the charcoal filter. Image Unavailable, Please Login The MSD is mounted to a 1/8" plate of aluminum with an added 1/16" piece of angle (circled) to attach a vertical heat shield. The MSD harness to bank 5-8 will need to be shortened, and bank 1-4 lengthened. Now I know exactly how long the COP harness needs to be. It's important to me to make the COP harness as neat and precise as possible for a factory look.
