Boxers are undervalued | Page 6 | FerrariChat

Boxers are undervalued

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by ross, Dec 12, 2021.

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  1. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Thats pretty much the story of the worlds fleet of BBs right there.
     
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  2. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,206
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    agreed. thats kind of what i saw as well 13 years ago.....ultimately decided to buy the best one i could, and then redo everything at my usual shop so i would know it was done and done right.
    then i drove it a lot, and still do. and now 13 years later it is in rehab again getting things taken care of so i can keep driving it hard !

    the problem now is that many of the ones with needs are priced as if there are no needs, and thus no room for rehab.
    its kind of a double edged sword - if they were priced at 500k, the 200k ones with 100k of needs, would get scooped up and rehabbed.
    as it is, they are priced at 250-300k for the best ones, and 150-200k for the worst ones, and it still takes 100k to rehab...so the math is tight.
     
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  3. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    I have a 308QV, which also may be moved on. I acquired a 2013 427 corvette convertible 15 months ago to enjoy in FL.

    No plans for another car in the near future. Looked into, 05-06 Ford GTs, 2016 911Rs for a brief period and 2018 911GT3 touring editions because they all are manual shift which is something that I really enjoy in a toy car.

    But I'm not really going to look for anything unless the right car smacks me in the face and I hate to say it on this site, but it could possibly be an older Porsche as I've never had one. I'm just starting to have some fun with vintage go karts pre 1965 and it will be fun for several years.
     
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  4. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    I did 3 PPIs on cars back in 2013 and yep they are just plain neglected. But I will say, you can work on them yourself if you are a reasonably competent mechanic. The thing is to get the car up to snuff and take care if it, by changing the fluids and doing the service without skimping and driving it.

    In all honesty, my Boxer has not cost anymour to own than my 308 once I did what I wanted, Newman Diff, total suspension bushing replacement, 17 inch wheels and tires and a nice Bell exhaust made the driving experience fantastic and myself, Boxerman and another member have made some epic runs through CT and NY.
     
  5. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    I've had some old Porsches, including a 1973 Carrera RS. They're awesome cars and comparably easy to own.
     
  6. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    I know a couple guys who have them, but they are way above my pay scale. That's a lotto car for me, now maybe I should play lotto. . . . . Nah.
     
  7. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    I haven't been paying attention to prices but you should be able to find a 1974 Carrera that's euro delivery that's basically the same car as a series 3 touring RS for about what you would get for your Boxer. I know that when I sold my 1973 RS a few years ago, that 1974 was like $100k and it was a crazy good car for that money.
     
  8. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    I'll talk to my friend who is a Porsche encyclopedia on older cars. He was the past pres of pirsche club of NY. He also finds buried treasure.
     
  9. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    They don't call it the Treasure Coast for nothing.

    Euro delivery 1974 911 Carrera. Same 2.7 with MFI and the rest of the car is pretty darn good. As I said, not far off of a 73 RS series 3 Touring. For whatever reason, people discount it heavily due to the G bumpers. Not very in the know about current pricing but your friend can help. Good luck!
     
  10. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,091
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Own less houses and you can have more cars :D
     
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  11. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Brother, can you spare a major. LOL
     
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  12. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,866
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    and where to put the cars then when no houses/garages are there? ;)
     
  13. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    #138 dwhite, Mar 16, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2022
    True, I have an apartment in Brooklyn, NY and I store my cars out on Long Island.

    My place in FL does have a 2 car garage, but I have my wifes mini cooper and a corvette there. We also have a storage unit in FL for go karts, xmas stuff and other crap.

    I've probably spent 100K on garage space over the last 33 years if I really added it up, but somethings you don't want to know. It's like going to a nice resturant where they don't have prices on the menu. Anyway cars have been a great enjoyment for me in my life and with no kids, you can be a bit more carefree with money.

    But the roads in NY are just becomming abysmal and the roads where I live in FL are all straight, so it's harder and harder to want to keep the Ferraris. I enjoy driving cars and I'm not the person who has trophys from shows or keeps cars as objet d'art, nothing wrong with that, it's just not me.

    There are a couple cars I would like to experience, but if it does not happen, I'm good.
     
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  14. Sergio Tavares

    Sergio Tavares Formula Junior

    Nov 15, 2018
    841
    Full Name:
    Sergio Tavares
    Yes, this is the original antique Supercar
     
  15. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,684
    Some time back I hinted around about trading you my Ford GT, so I can verify that you really love your car.

    Good luck with the sale, I know you will miss it.

    The GT3 touring is a wonderful car.
     
  16. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,684
    This was certainly true when I was looking over 2 year’s ago, and with everything else 20% higher now, maybe the math works out better now.
     
  17. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    18,627
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean
    My theory a nice boxer needs 50k to be pout right assuming you can find someone witht he talent to do so.
    I would pretty much never buy a car thats says belts etc. just done. Anyone doing the work for a sale will be skipping so many things the work needs to be redone.
    As i have said for years there is a vast difference between a great looking cosmetically nice boxer that runs and a proper driving boxer. That difference is at least 50k to get there, and more like 75K. The same can be said for 308s especially Gt4.s

    At 30-40 years old these cars should have bushings coolant hoses, brake hoses etc, not to mention distributor, wires etc etc etc.
    Thats before we touch on issues like sodium valves etc.

    IMo the way to go on a BBI is a cosmeticaly great origional car/orig paint etc, which can be found without too much difficulty. Then I would have Newman do pistons and cams + valves, and refurb the fuel system, all hoses brakes ac upgrde. Youll end up with an approx 400hp injected car that really goes, handles as it shoudl and ac that works. Id also have image wheels in 17 in for driving and keep the stock ones for shows etc.
     
  18. dwhite

    dwhite F1 Rookie

    Maybe we can start a company that does this, the same way Singer does it for older porsches.

    We will call it "Cantante"(singer in Italian). Their getting a million for Singers, so 200-250K for a very decent Boxer another 200max into it and Voila we have our first Cantante. I can provide the first doner car if we can come up with the angel investors and Newmans involvement. Who's in ;-)
     
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  19. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2004
    4,160
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Full Name:
    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day All,

    Not to create more consternation... but BaT saw a 308QV sell for $142K USD:

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1984-ferrari-308-gtsi-quattrovalvole-22

    The QV is a nice car and the one sold was nice, but really... $142K for a QV when a (driver) Boxer which is 10x the car and was Ferrari's flag ship is selling for about 50% more? I recognize that there were two bidders really interested in the QV, but still something is truly amiss.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  20. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    May 27, 2004
    18,627
    FL
    Full Name:
    Sean

    A 308 as with a 246 is simply a much easier proposition to drive and own. Daytona's which are front engine V12 enzo cars with carbs are nowhere near the price of their predecessor. Thats partially due to styling, same with a 246 premium, but also very much related to what beast a Daytona is to drive at modern speeds.

    Imo what is missing for the boxer, is reviews by pundits who know how to drive and can reveal what a superlative car a boxer is. Put it this way, its 90% of a 288, arguably better styled and has a 12, but heavier at the helm, for less than 10% of the price.

    I can well remember when a Miura couldnt break 85k and was less than half what a daytona cost. Then it became recognized based mostly on its styling.
    What are the factors that would cause a boxer to be reckognized. TRs for example are 80s Icons reflecting that era are easy to live with and Miami vice.
    Boxers fall betwene cracks, how to uplift the car. It is afetr all a can am ferrari fort the road, the last coachbuilt ferrari, the last ferrari built around performance without compromise, truly the feel of a racecar for the road.
     
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  21. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
    36,206
    houston/geneva
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    Ross
    you just described exactly what i did.... :)
     
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  22. amust

    amust Rookie

    May 6, 2016
    8
    Maybe your wish did get stared! RM Fort Lauderdale Auction sold today 84 BB512i #51803 for the amount of $462.000US( all in) Full restoration started circa 2015 by Newman(as per description) invoices totaling nearly $276.000 Voila the first "Cantante"
    Cheers to all
    Anthony
     
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  23. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 25, 2002
    36,206
    houston/geneva
    Full Name:
    Ross
    wow!!
    Newman has even greater currency now !
    well done !!
     
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  24. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 8, 2004
    4,160
    Edmonton, AB Canada
    Full Name:
    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Sean,

    I can certainly understand your comments and they very well may be was is reflective in the market. However, I think your first statement of "A 308 as with a 246 is simply a much easier proposition to drive and own." is an incorrect perception by others. I say this because I find that driving a Boxer is no less of an effort than a 308 at non jail time speeds. The Boxer clutch is hydraulic... so it is not heavy at all and for those that think it is.. I think something is wonky with your clutch or some leg exercises are in order. Steering... again, I find it no easier or harder than a 308 or a 246. The only real effort is maybe trying to contain one's "enthusiasm" with the extra "jam"" that the boxer has. As for ownership and perhaps you mean running costs? If so, maintaining a boxer is not dramatically more than a 308. Indeed, the engine needs to come out for belts, water pump, etc but it was designed for these services and removing the engine is not a big deal.. 6-7 hours out and about the same back in. However, having direct and easy access to a removed engine allows for easier efforts to perform a number of the services. The only real uber high and eye watering costs are replacement of the major engine parts, but full replacement of these parts is not a common occurrence.

    I am complete agreement with your comment that before the boxer is truly noticed, that a number of noted pundits as you call then a other famous people need to gush about the model. However, until then I guess we will have to make "do" with our boxers and shake our heads that others are missing out on such a magnificent car that is superlative on every level.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  25. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 26, 2001
    14,091
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Steering is a lot heavier in a BBi than your 77 BB, Sean has a BBi (with aftermarket wheels). The wide TRX tires really changed how flickable the Boxer is and not for the better. A 215 front tire on a BB is perfect in my opinion.
     
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