Friends, I successfully finished my major service on my 75 US car, and now I'm trying to tackle this original fuel pump on my 74 Euro model. My good friend Brian who worked for Al when my car was restored said these OEM fuel pumps were sent off to someone in Northern California to rebuild them. He told me the brand name of the pump but I can't remember, and will ask him. I have a series of questions hopefully you can all give some advice or direction on. Ferrari recommended a Facet pump as a replacement and that's what I'm going with as I have one on my 75 and it's been on there for years without any problems whatsoever part #476087. This original pump is making a noise so hideous it is twice the volume of the engine running. My first question is; there some sort of device connected to the 12V power which I think may be some kind of RF interference device but it's not in any of the parts books and it scares me that 12 V power is going to it it. I wanted to ask if it's necessary or if I could just detach it. I don't have it on my other car and never had any problems. Rob Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It's a capacitor to help suppress radio interference and arcing at the motor brushes (which will help extend their lives). Often they are included as part of the fuel pump motor (so don't appear as a separate part in the SPC, and are selected by the fuel pump motor manufacturer, not Ferrari), but, if you check the schematic in the 308GT4 WSM, you'll see item 79, radio suppressor capacitor (1 uF), attached to the "+" terminal at the fuel pump motor 86. However, item 78 is a 2.2 uF capacitor that should be mounted to the alternator (and I think got incorporated inside the alternator on later models per notations in the OM schematics) -- the documentation shows you should have a 1 uF capacitor at the fuel pump (if the stock fuel pump motor), not a 2.2 uF capacitor like you show.
Steve, Here is a pic of the Facet instructions and the rebuilt alternator I just installed on my other car, (not sure what this one has). Since I'm not using the stock fuel pump motor, should I delete that, or would it be prudent to leave it installed. You know electronics is my weakest subject, so would the difference in values of those two capacitors cause any concern if I leave it connected. Do you think the faucet pump already has something like that incorporated into it since it's solid state? Does the capacitor in the alternator solve the problem system wide, or one is needed for each component? By the way thank you for answering all my questions, it's no secret you've been a hero mine for many years, and so many years have pasted in between some of these projects of mine, I really appreciate all your help! Did you get a chance to listen to that pump? Rob Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
If the solid state Facet needed an external capacitor, I think that they would have supplied it, or mentioned in the instructions, so don't think you need an external one on that (whatever is does need is probably built inside). On any brush type DC motor, better to have one in place rather than none (so just leave it). I tried to do some internet searching on how to size the capacitor, but just came across a few "X is probably fine" rule-of-thumb recommendations that are much less than even the 1 uF Ferrari that has on their schematic. Don't think that yours being larger value is a problem, and is definitely better than having none. Each component needs its own mounted as close as possible. That sounds horrible! It's a miracle that it's still working -- I think that you can (and should) replace (or repair) it without any regret.
What model do you guys use and what connector style? https://www.hardi-automotive.com/en/products/fuel-pumps/
All, What doe the Hardi sound like? Is it better than the Facet? How hard is the electrical connections? Are those rotating fittings pretty leak free??? Found this at my friends in Germany: https://www.dinoparts.com/en/parts-accessories/ferrari/208-308-gt4/carburetors-fuel-supply/fuel-pumps-more/ I already have the Facet and installed the fittings but would order the Hardi if I get enough positive feedback?? It says it supplies fuel based on engine demand? I dont see how that would that work on the Webers? Rob
Rob, mine has #18813 on it, looks identical to #13312 in the link of above post #9. Within the family of 12V the numbering indicates mainly the various ducts and connections versions . Did buy directly from Hardi, Germany ( price advantage at that time ), delivered in box with instruction sheet and plastic plugged ducts . It works just fine, no problems with over-floating/starving or other carbs related issues. I mind the 246 and 911 Porsche communities are familiar with using Hardi. It is a membrane plunger pump so that at start you may hear a clear pulsating noise for few seconds ( until carbs chambers are full) and after you just drive and forget it. I am abroad now and cant check in the garage but likely you have to change the fuel hose to the fuel filter . The assembling is bolt-on with the OEM Bendix-BCD pump, including connectors. Just pay attention to clear the gap between pump body and fuel filter , for safety did patch a rubber ( piece of a garden hose) in between just in case ( vibrations on road jumps etc). When done you may have a look inside the OEM pump, it is an easy job ( well documented in the Forum) to disassembling and overhaul it. Make sure to mark the position of the parts ( cover vs body) to get the correct position at reassembling
+1 - #18812 matches the 308GT4 WSM specs well. #13312 has too low a pressure and too low a flow capacity for a 308. (It's more for 1.0L-1.7L engines)
Some good info here: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/bcd-corona-carb-fuel-pump-replacement-hardi-18812.528946/
Friends,, Thank you all for your replies and suggestions. I think I'm going to mount the Facet pump only because I have it and installed the brass fittings and already have experience with it, and it was what Ferrari recommended. As some of you know I am a professional drummer and the pandemic has hit me hard financially so at some point I have to at least be somewhat frugal! If I didn't already have the Facet I probably would have ordered the Hardi, and hope I live long enough to have to replace another pump in this fine automobile. I am amazed about what is inside these BCD Corona pumps and realize that the bearing must have dried up or gone bad making the horrible noise I am experiencing in this unit! Also I have been experiencing fuel issues on this car for a while which I thought were carb related which I could not run down. I would not besuprised to learn it was this pump failing?!? Here are the other fuel pump threads threads for cross reference. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/corona-fuel-pump.502462/ https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/bcd-corona-fuel-pumps.402939/ Will post someone pics as I proceed. Here is some info I received from Hardi and Facet? I was surprised that Hardi did not know which pump would fit the Ferrari? Hi Rob, thanky for email…. You could choose a 8812-3, which you will find here… https://vintageimportsinc.com/ In case of not enough fuel capacity ( what I not belive) you should think about a double pump parallel to double the capacity… See here a sample picture… Good Luck. Mit freundlichem Gruß/Best Regards Nenad Mlinaric HARDI Automotive GmbH Graf-Werner-Str. 46 78662 Bösingen Tel.: +49 7404 / 9304-325 Fax: +49 7404 / 9304-324 E-Mail: [email protected] http://www.hardi-automotive.com | Geschäftsführer Verena Staiger, Nenad Mlinaric | Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 751506 | USt-ID DE298554015 | ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ Hi Robert Facet fuel pumps are solid state with a circuit board and coil and do not have a motor. I don’t believe you will need a capacitor for your application. Paul Puleo National Sales Manager Motor Components, LLC www.facet-purolator.com Facet fuel pumps are not for Aircraft application. USA
Hi, I installed a Hardi pump on a 2.4 Dino V6 and it quit on me after 18 months. The engineer at Hardi was extremely helpful in understanding what happened and even provided a replacement pcb to replace the one that fried. After some back and forth, we concluded that these pumps were not to be used with a free-flowing return to the fuel tank. Rather, you need to block off the return tube from the last carburettor and let the pump do its work to keep the pressure constant by adjusting the flow. If you leave the current setup, the pump is clicking away all the time to keep up the flow. That is not how it was designed to operate. I would suggest writing to them to confirm.
Friends, I was curious what it meant on the Hardy website it said the pumps "All HARDI-Pumps have a special control system that enables the adaption of the pumping capacity to the consumption of the engine. This means, it will pump fast at high consumption, slow or not at all at low consumption and therefore a great deal of energy is saved (flexible stroke frequency). " they look like good pumpkin it's hard to be any German engineering but I have the same pump on my other car and it's been flawless. Not sure I mentioned that you had a nice thread but this car has been hesitating and stumbling off idle. I'm curious to see if this new pump fixes that! Here are some pics of the pump I removed a "BCD Corona", (I need to take the top part off. I assume it has a bad bearing), my installation so far, and the connectors I got that match the OEM exactly. I found them on this thread! https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/308-white-plastic-box-electrical-connectors.656803/page-2#post-148446361 Spent a while bending the Facet mounting brackets to get it positioned not to close to the fuel filter, its close but will work! By the way the Facet is #476087. I may peel the sticker off to make it look more classic! ha I have a question for you all, see in the last photo the blue cavis clear hose on the euro car comes from the gas filler tube. The US car doesn't have one, but on my euro car it was hanging down strapped to the fuel tank strap. It would drip gasoline out and I thought this doesn't make a very good safety feature, so near the exhaust etc. so I put a longer piece on there and rolled it up, I'm not sure that's smart either. I wanted to vent it without it dripping raw gas out....I'd like to hear some of your suggestions. Thanks again to all who have responded. Once again I am grateful for the Ferrari community! Rob Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Friends, I put everything back together and it looked perfect, hooked up the hoses and then fuel started coming out of the top bolt on the fuel filter. Didn't wanna crank that boat down too much because I didn't want to ruin the ring that holds the cup! It looks like there's a copper washer that's inset into the top. Can anyone confirm this? Its not in the parts book! Rob
Rob yes I used a copper washer on the long center bolt. I have had a terrible time chasing leaks on the fuel filter housing. Even with new copper washers every one weeped. Took it all apart and used thin smear of aviation sealant which improved matters but still a slight weep from the three bolts on top of the housing. I just took it all apart again and this time used a thin smear of permatex that is fuel resistant. Am hoping that will fix it. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Kiwiokie, It looks like on my US car there's a copper washer on top of the fuel filter housing. On the filter on this Eurocar the copper washer seems to be pressed into the housing. I tried to remove it and it would not come out easily so I just put another copper washer on top of it. It didn't seem like the ideal solution but it worked and there is no fuel leaking out. I take less pictures when I'm having problems like this, so I apologize for not getting a shot of that insert washer better. In the picture with the bolt out you can see a groove in the center, that is caused by the shoulder of the bolt on the inserted copper washer. It has turned almost to silver. The next photo you can see a little bit of the copper washer hanging out. The last photo is with the new copper washer on and tight. Rob Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Fiends, I didn't wanna confuse the issue at hand but here's a picture of my 75 US car fuel filter, you can see a copper washer I'm not sure whether it's pressed in or sitting on top of the housing. It's strange that cars built so close 409 and 410 have so many different parts as you can see on my US car 410, it has bolts welded on to the frame that you screw nuts on, on 409 it has nuts welded to the frame that you screw the bolts into. Also the filter units are different..... Rob Image Unavailable, Please Login
