Boxers are undervalued

I have a 308qv and an 84 Boxer. The clutch in my Boxer is much heavier, although it has an AP clutch, but all the cars I test drove felt the same. Could easily stall the car if not focused at launch.

The 308 clutch is light as a feather and the car has a much lighter feel overall. As I work on my cars myself I do agree with Boxers are not really that much more to own than the 308. The major service is done every 7-8 years and if you have done as much as I have during the last service the next really will be belts and water pump. However, you need a large space to pull the Boxers motor vs I can do the 308 in a relatively small garage. Fluid changes are a bit more on the boxer as it just needs more fluids.

Both are great cars and I love driving them both. Of course extra power never gets old and the torque in the 12 is just fantastic. Smooth like a jet at takeoff it just keeps building. But I'm preaching to the choir. I need a drive.

 

One last thing, Congrats to Paul Newman. He probably is setting the benchmark for a restored Boxer.

"Cantante"

 

I also have a Boxer and a 308. From a clutch perspective, I believe the biggest difference between the two isn’t pressing the clutch in, it’s when the clutch is released. The force when a Boxer clutch is released is substantially greater than the 308. It almost springs back and you need to control that or you will definite stall the engine if you are not on the gas early enough.

 

The AP racing clutch is different than the Borg and Beck they came with originally. My 79 still had a Borg and Beck which is lighter and easier to modulate than the AP which almost toggles in comparison.

 

Yes, You were nice enough to let me, Rich and Sean drive your car which did have an easier clutch and of course the narrower(215) front tires gave the front end a much lighter feel. That was a great day in Barrie. 3 happy idiots and Paul.

 

It was a great visit! 4 happy idiots

 

Good day Guys,

Thanks for your feedback and my apologies for assuming that BB's and BBi's were similar in both their clutch and steering efforts. I guess I am spoiled, as driving my BB is a breeze and I have none of the issues noted above. In fact this was something I noticed during the very first drive with my car. My BB is extremely nimble with minimal effort in using the clutch or steering. This could be unique to my car (it's special ), or perhaps it could be my perception when I compare these items to other cars I have had or driven, 308's included (GT4, QV).

Cheers,

Sam

 

Another Boxer, 82 BBI, that Paul mechanically restored is at Ferrari of Atlanta about to go on the market for sale. This was actually Paul’s personal Boxer. Complete engine rebuild, suspension, billet differential. One of the best of the best!

 

I see Hagerty has finally updated their valuation tool on a BBi. Although these numbers still could be considered low. Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Hagerty just insured my car at the $350k, if that helps. 22k miles or something on it. They did have to take a bunch of pics and document it.

 

Hagerty doesn't require appraisals anymore, not up here at least. What I was told by my broker is the number isn't critical because they try to replace your vehicle rather than cut a check for it. My 400i auto is insured with them for $100K if that tells you anything.

 

Good day All,

Just another data point... A 1984 BBi sold today on BaT for $264K USD (https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1984-ferrari-512-bbi-11/)

Here is a thread I started on this car (chassis 49319)

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1984-ferrari-512bbi-chassis-49319.659528/

Cheers,

Sam

 

For what it’s worth, i put a deposit on this car last summer, pending a ppi. I got my deposit back after the inspection; it was perhaps the worst car I looked at mechanically. It was not fun because I really thought this was going to be the 512bbi for me (I had just before inspected a fantastic running 512bb but it needed too much for me in other areas to properly work and this seemed like the right one).

If what I saw in the records is right and there was indeed no work done on the car since my ppi, the buyer is going to have a very substantial bill to bring it up an acceptable (for me) level if he/she wants to actually use it. And I don’t mean a few $k here or there.

This would be a good car to send to Paul for a serious mechanical overhaul.

 

but then it will not be payable anymore - or a new record?

200 km/h speedometer - have to laugh loud
but BAT seems to be not even capable to make a right description. on the photo it shows clearly: 200 mph

 

Good day,

Can you share what mechanical items were in need of attention?

Cheers,

Sam

 

I don’t know if that’s in good taste, similarly to why I didn’t say anything when the auction was going on.

Someone did their due diligence, presumably, and was comfortable enough to buy the car. I’m sure they’re a big boy or girl.

I only commented here because there is a consensus that this was a steal and at least one person publicly commented that it went for $100k too cheap. I only wanted to put out that there’s more than meets the eye. And it’s not conjecture. It’s from a ppi that I paid for and I reviewed personally.

Now I hope that this looks like a bargain in short time, even if the car receives 6 figures of needed attention. In that respect, this car could very well be a great deal but it will take some market movement for that to be the case. In my opinion of course.

 

Ross, in all honesty you couldn’t have known from the pics.

I had all the very nice pics from FoFL AND I had a close friend, Ferrari owner, and FCA officer drive down to Ft L and out eyes on it before I gave them a deposit. And he has owned 3 or 4 of the flat 12 cars and isn’t a novice by any means.

It’s only under a ppi by an expert, with an accompanying drive, did the problems show themselves. Additionally, I had a good friend on here who also knows Boxers well take a look at the ppi and he was also pretty adamant that these issues were quite substantial in his experience. Anyways, I wanted the car but I passed after the ppi and ended up paying up for another car that did have a stellar ppi.

All in all, I spent a small fortune on boxer ppi’s but I think it saved me a larger fortune in the end.

 

..last weekend in Monaco..

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27712/lot/106/1983-ferrari-512-bbi-coupe-chassis-no-zffja09b000042971-engine-no-f110a00254/

 

€184,000 is $191,000. Granted, it is a BBi, not a BB, but since I bought mine in 2011, these cars have gone nowhere in price.

 

The 308 Vetro at same auction went for E 150K ...to me any Boxer should be at least double that

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/27712/lot/103/1976-ferrari-308-gtb-vetroresina-chassis-no-18879/