Ferrari 365/400/412 Cylinder Head Port & Polishing | FerrariChat

Ferrari 365/400/412 Cylinder Head Port & Polishing

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 360modena2003, Apr 3, 2022.

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  1. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,395
    Hello,

    as my cylinder heads are currently off the engine, I was wondering if anyone has attempted to improve the flow on these cylinder heads by polishing and working the combustion chamber as well as intake and exhaust ports.

    I understand that the "throat" should not be enlarged to keep the Venturi effect, and that the intake port should remain "rough" so ensure proper atomization - the combustion chamber can be finished to a "mirror finish".

    I will be taking some detailed pictures of the combustion chamber and port to see how good the castings are and see what improvements can be made.
     
  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,386
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Just fix what is needed and leave the rest as they are. Let's not go looking for problems. The path to hell is paved with good intentions..
     
  3. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,395
    Just went to the machine shop, seems the Italians put effort into the casting and finishing of the head, the insides of the intake and exhaust port have no high/low spots, no blemishes or other imperfections.

    I also had a look and matched the exhaust gasket and it is perfectly matched, no overlapping material.

    The combustion chamber is also very good, I will have the shop do a mirror finish just for enjoyment, but there isn't much to improve here.

    I know these engines can make upward of 550 HP, so the restriction has to be with the very highly restrictive intake manifold and K-Jet airflow sensor plate.

    Sent from my MAR-LX1M using Tapatalk
     
  4. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,395
  5. wmuno

    wmuno Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 24, 2007
    434
    Wilmette, Illinois
    Full Name:
    Bill Muno
    The intake runners, intake and exhaust ports, and the header lengths are all designed as a system. The final configuration is determined usually after many dyno runs. You could run into problems if you just alter one without changing the others. Stick with the old saying, If it's not broken don't fix it.
     
    daytonaman likes this.
  6. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,865
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    #6 raemin, Apr 10, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
    Do not try to mess with the exhaust port under any circumstances : these ports are less than 2mm thick. As soon your guy is going to grind the port he will plunge directly into the water jackets... The inlet are not as problematic (they do not sustain the exhaust gases), but still way to thin.


    [​IMG]
    (abstract from https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/compression-and-leakdown-tests.635769/#post-147695453)

    In stock form the head has already a serious tendency to crack: this head is nicely designed, with better inflow than the Testarossa, but unlike the Daytona, the carbs/injection is not inside the valley, but on the side of the engine, which implied to re-route the exhaust further down, so the exhaust port has a tight turn (see red highlight in the drawing) that has to sustain lots of heat. This makes matters even worse. Keep as much material as you can...
     
  7. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,395
    Thanks for the advisory.

    The machine shop said there is nothing to improve, so it was just cleaned up; the ports are already very good.

    Sent from my MAR-LX1M using Tapatalk
     
  8. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,126
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams
    The best thing you can do is improve the valve seats. The placement of the contact between seat and valve is always pretty bad in those older heads. I have done flow testing on my flow bench and a slightly larger valve allows for a seat profile change that will improve flow. I agree the ports are well done for what is there. No need chasing that. If you are interested in flow number for your heads, contact me and I can arrange to flow test them for you. If you are not planning to change anything, this is actually not helpful. Just numbers. 770-845-8335 text me.
     
  9. MiuraP400

    MiuraP400 Formula Junior

    Feb 3, 2008
    940
    Arizona
    Full Name:
    Jim
    Good advise, I have had similar experiences. Depending on the seat geometry it can make a significant difference.

    Cheers Jim
     
  10. raemin

    raemin Formula 3

    Jan 16, 2007
    1,865
    Lyon (FR)
    Full Name:
    R. Emin
    You could also use thinner vavle seats, as the difference between the inner and outer diameter is quite significant compared to standard seats. During the first rebuild of my cylinder head we decided to use the same inner diameter and smaller outer diameter, which allowed to add more material on the outside of the seat, and hence strengthen the head were it usually crack.

    You could do the opposite: keep the same outside diameter and increase the inside diameter (i.e bigger port).

    I had to drop the left head 4 times on my car, the three heads I bought all had to be fixed, and only one could be finally made to work: when you mess with these, be ready for some painful mistakes.
     
  11. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,395
    Given the already very good design and the risks in doing anything, the "don't fix if it isn't broke" adage completely applies here.

    The heads on going on this week.
     
  12. 360modena2003

    360modena2003 Formula 3

    Jul 11, 2009
    2,395
    Arvid and raemin like this.

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