Mondial 3.2 headlight upgrade options | FerrariChat

Mondial 3.2 headlight upgrade options

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by djs308, Feb 6, 2022.

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  1. djs308

    djs308 Formula 3
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    Sep 2, 2002
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    David S.
    Though I do not do it often, it is simply scary to drive at night when I can barely see anything ahead of the car. I've finally decided to look into upgrading the low beam lights on my US spec 3.2 coupe. Would like something brighter, yet remain road-legal and not overtax the electrical system.

    Yes, I have found various older threads on this very topic. But that just left me more overwhelmed with options and no clear path to take.

    Has anyone upgraded by replacing the entire light assembly (bulb + reflector housing)? If so, what did you go with and why? Part numbers?

    Is there a simple drop in, plug-and-play halogen bulb replacement that works best in the original reflector housing? Philips, Sylvania, "other"?

    My preference is NOT to get into HID/LED with all the extra wiring and components, and would rather keep it a simple project, DIY if at all possible. But certainly interested to hear if anyone has done such a conversion with success.

    Someone had posted that Daniel Stern Lighting is a good vendor for these cars. Anyone ordered Mondial lighting from there with good results? If so, what product did you go with and how did it change the lighting performance?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Stef65

    Stef65 Karting

    Apr 28, 2015
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    I follow.
     
  3. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
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    Aug 16, 2004
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    I find that the headlights in my car are fine.
    I will add that Stern is a great resource. He knows his stuff.


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  4. davem

    davem F1 Veteran
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    Jan 21, 2002
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    I turn on my fog/ driving lights at night. Makes it much better
     
  5. djs308

    djs308 Formula 3
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    I'm now in touch with Daniel Stern. Wow! He definitely knows his stuff! Very detailed and thorough explanations about lighting, along with the problems with most headlights on older cars. I'm learning a lot. Haven't made a final decision yet, but leaning towards replacing the sealed beam units with much more advanced and brighter Halogens.
     
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  6. stasha

    stasha Karting

    Sep 10, 2021
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    steve steve
    Interesting that halogens are still hanging on.
    Is it to keep the classic look and originality?
    Like the inevitable advance of EVs, there is no doubt that LEDs in headlights is the future, no matter how the science might spin it.
     
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  7. djs308

    djs308 Formula 3
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    Sep 2, 2002
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    Oh for certain, quality LEDs are superior. No question there. Mr. Stern indeed presented an LED lamp as his top option for me. But there are a few reasons why I'm likely to decline an LED setup on my car:

    The recommended lamps are very different in appearance than OEM units. Not a dealbreaker, in and of itself.
    A lot more expensive to install them.
    Extra wiring and other hardware is required to fit LEDs.
    I'm not driving the car at night all that often. To invest in the high-end LED lamps would be overkill (for me).

    On the other hand, he said that Koito makes excellent quality Halogen lamps that are suitable for the Mondial. There will be a relay kit needed but there is an option to buy that as well. Though not as bright as LEDs, the Koito's are wayyyy better than what my car is using right now. So this is the direction I'm leaning in.
     
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  8. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,827
    Isle of man- uk
    In the uk i believe it is illegal to retrofit fit LED lights to a car- if a car is fitted with LED when it is made that is fine but you cannot retrofit them. Having said that they dont specifically check this when your car goes for its annual MOT check. Odd catch 22 setup
     
  9. djs308

    djs308 Formula 3
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    Here in the US, it is essentially the same, based on what I was told. If the OEM lamp unit has Halogen and/or Projectors, then retrofitting LEDs into the same housing is not legal, yet this is done all the time here. I'm having the same issue with my daily driver, just poor lighting for the main halogen beams and LEDs weren't available until the next model year after mine. The key advantage with upgraded halogen bulbs is much better brightness than the OEM bulbs, but not quite LED level.

    The bigger question is why do so many manufacturers insist on installing garbage for OEM headlights in the first place!
     
  10. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido Formula 3
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    Jan 21, 2004
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    I think its not the OEM lights that are the problem. For decades cars are using the normal H lights. Its rather the lesser good view people have using to much PC, laptops, handys etc...(watching FChat includeed)....:p
     
  11. djs308

    djs308 Formula 3
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    Here's an update:
    I ordered a set of Koito Headlamps with brighter halogens from Daniel Stern. Just got them installed by a local shop and picked up my car yesterday. Although I have not yet taken the car out at night, it is noticeable that these new lights are much brighter than the ones I had previously! Will have to do some driving at night in the coming days and see how well they work.

    However, there's one glitch:
    There is a yellow alert/warning light for "LIGHTS" that appears (center console by the gear shifter) every time I rotate the light stalk to turn on the lights. My suspicion is that it's something to do with the new wiring harness that came with its own set of relays/fuses. All my lights ARE working, so I believe it is a false indication. But it's going to be annoying to see that every time I use the lights.

    Anyone have a simple way to diagnose and fix the issue to turn off the warning?

    Other than that, thus far, I'm very pleased with the upgrade.

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  12. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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  13. djs308

    djs308 Formula 3
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    But isn't that going to disable the system warning completely? I'd prefer to keep the system functional if at all possible. Just in case there IS a lamp failure.
     
  14. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Yes it does disable it.

    However the headlamps aren't included in the check, only the parking and taillights, and if you press the brake pedal during the check, the brake lights.

    The "fault" it senses may be due to the added current draw of the relays.
     
  15. Sigmacars

    Sigmacars Formula Junior
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    Jul 19, 2006
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    I changed my Halogen lights to LED much brighter but also a big drop of Amp consumption 5.8 amps each to2.2 amps each for LED
     
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  16. stasha

    stasha Karting

    Sep 10, 2021
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    steve steve
    Sigma - Which LEDs did you get?
    Any electrical problems or quirks? Was it a direct plug and play?
    Thanks.
     
  17. Sigmacars

    Sigmacars Formula Junior
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    Here is a pic the where $34.00 for the set on e bay yes plug and play
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  18. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Are you sure about this? The wiring loom posted by djs308 in this thread:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/upgraded-brighter-headlights-but-now-have-a-lights-warning.657516

    doesn't seem to have any connection to the parking lights system/operation.
     
  19. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    No I am not, Steve. I was just thinking where the fault could be originating from since the check-control ecu doesn't know about the headlamp bulbs as such. I don't know where David gets his relay power from.

    My car also displays a lights fault but all lights are working - and only with engine running - it goes through the process incl. brakes with ign ON and displays green, so that works as intended. When the engine runs, it turns into a yellow, lights fault. No idea why.
     
  20. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Do you have a copy of the US version Mondial 3.2 wiring diagram showing what is connected to the check-control ecu? If so, can you share?
     
  21. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Steve you're right it's a US version and they indeed have different electronic unit part number: Image Unavailable, Please Login
    So - I don't know what it's doing because I don't have the US manual... sorry for that.
     
  22. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I also don't (seem to) have any euro 3.2 Mondial wiring diagram that shows that 61835300 ECU -- is it shown somewhere in the 488/87 wiring diagram?

    The only euro 3.2 Mondial OM I have is 474/87 and that doesn't have the display with the warning lights in the center console -- is there a later euro 3.2 Mondial OM that shows that it has the same display in the center console like the US version?
     
  23. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    488/87 doesn't show it anymore. My guess is that it disappeared with the 87 model year. Essentially, we don't have any information on the check control ecu of the 3.2L cars.
     
  24. jelliott

    jelliott Karting

    Mar 8, 2010
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    If anyone is still monitoring this year-old thread...

    I'm curious why you chose to modify the wiring with the aftermarket relay harness. Granted, the Mondial fuse/relay panel is probably happy to have that much less current going through it, but the lamps you chose are essentially identical to what would have been stock in ROW markets, and the power consumption should be identical to the USA-spec garbage sealed beams (2 x 55 W on low beam, and 4 x 60 W on high beam, IIRC). And the Mondial already has all the headlight loads carried by relays, so the generic guidance of extending the life of your column switch and shortening the overall length of wire involved doesn't really apply here. Or did you install more powerful bulbs than the standard fitment (which is not recommended, at least in the low beams)?

    Also, can you share the Koito part numbers involved? If these are Daniel-Stern-endorsed alternatives to the more common Hella aftermarket units (themselves equivalent to the Carello units that ROW-spec OEM, albeit with flat rather than convex lenses), it'd be good to document the part numbers here.

    And I'd also be curious to know what Mr. Stern is currently recommending as an LED retrofit for the 5.75" sealed beams these days. (I know they won't look stock, but for cars with pop-up headlamps I wouldn't expect most folks to care.) An properly-engineered LED solution should offer superior optics, equivalent brightness, and way less current going through that poor fuse/relay panel, with at most one minor wiring modification, depending on how they're configured.

    To answer a couple of questions that came up earlier in the thread:
    • The "LIGHTS" warning light doesn't monitor the headlight circuits, so this shouldn't have been affected. The most plausible explanation is that you bumped something when installing the new wiring, and now one of the parking light bulbs isn't seated as well as it was previously, such that it's drawing less current and registering as a burned out bulb. Also a remote possibility is that by powering the headlights from a different source (i.e. wherever you attached the +12V wire of your relay harness, as opposed to the normal path through the fuse/relay panel), you've subtly affected a +12V reference voltage used by the monitoring box in the footwell. You could test this by hooking up the new headlights through the stock wiring (ASSUMING YOU'RE NOT USING >60 W BULBS IN THE NEW LAMPS) and see if the warning goes away.
    • As for "why do so many manufacturers insist on installing garbage for OEM headlights in the first place," note that USA regulations mandated garbage headlamps (specifically unshielded, transverse-filament low beam bulbs with garbage optics) until like 1997. A ROW-spec Mondial came from the factory with lamps built to the same basic specs as your new Koito units. (I obviously don't know the details on the Koito lamps, but I can see from your photo that they carry the same ECE HCR and HR approval markings, respectively, as the ROW-spec OEM units.)
     
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  25. djs308

    djs308 Formula 3
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    Joe,
    I didn't have time to go digging through my records, but here's my recollection:
    Mr. Stern asked what my criteria were. My answer was that I wanted to be able to see the road (OEM headlights were unsafe regarding visibility), to keep the units looking like the stock units and also to keep the system legal in my area.

    Of the options provided, I went with the Koito lamps (see photo), Tungsram Halogen bulbs (higher lumens) and custom wiring. Why did he recommend the custom wiring be added? His philosophy is that the OEM wiring was more than sufficient when the car was new, but degrades with age. So, yes, in theory, it *should* be able to carry the load, but since my 30+ year old car already has had electrical issues, he said this will alleviate any such problems. As an aside, the shop I had do the work ripped out an ancient alarm system and some miscellaneous spaghetti wiring.
    There was one LED option offered (don't recall brand).
    As far as the "warning" that was generated, that has since been resolved.

    At the end of the day, I'm quite pleased with the new lighting system on the car. While it is not as bright as an LED solution, it's far better than what was on the car before.

    Mr. Stern is very open to discussion on the topic. It's well beyond my area of expertise so I'd defer to him on product/brand selection. But if anyone would like to dig into the particulars further, definitely reach out to him!

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