355 - first year costs - a 355 13k mile garage queen | FerrariChat

355 first year costs - a 355 13k mile garage queen

Discussion in '348/355' started by rob lay, Apr 14, 2022.

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  1. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I'm 1 year into a 1999 355 Spider that was a garage queen setup cosmetically to go for a Cavallino Platinum in 2019. Almost 10 years with less than 1k miles driven, last belt change, and tires. I got her with 13k on the clock and immediately took her to Norwoods Auto Italia for the Major, then I drove her 2k miles, and then took her back for my list of picky squawks.

    Prior Services
    • Prestige 10/2016 - Clutch & Flywheel, Siderocker cosmetic, Top repair ($10,908)
    • Exotic Performance Engineering 9/2017 - "2 year" oil service ($1,813)
    • Exotic Performance Engineering 4/2018 - Redo flywheel work by Prestige, cosmetic paint correction, CV joint, replace lights, alarm fix, A/C repair ($12,183)
    • Exotic Performance Engineering 4/2018 - return to stock exhaust setup ($3,441)
    • Exotic Performance Engineering 2/2019 - sticky parts, dash bulbs, new Becker head unit, restore headrests, near complete interior restore, Cavallino detail prep ($29,749)
    TOTAL Prior Owner 10/2016-2/2019 to prep for Cavallino = $58,094

    My Ownership
    • Norwoods Auto Italia 5/2021 - transport from Florida, full PPI w/compression & leak, complete major, top repair, battery, seat potentiometer, steering rack boot, used Tubi exhaust ($18,669)
    • Boardwalk Ferrari 6/2021 - Ferrari Classiche, temp swap to stock exhaust ($7,305)
    • Norwoods Auto Italia 4/2022 - tires, 4 wheel alignment, seat repair, top repair, A/C repair, oil service, inspection ($5,663)
    TOTAL My Ownership 5/2021-4/2022 = $31,637

    Current mechanical and cosmetic squawks = ZERO!!! :)

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    Sav35, JJ, kingp0820 and 4 others like this.
  2. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Jun 14, 2011
    8,562
    SoCal LA/OC/New Mexico
    Full Name:
    Tim Dee
    Cool glad your in a real Ferrari again :)

    So what exhaust? I confuse easy :)
     
  3. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Prior went to stock for Cavallino, I have both. Driving with a Tubi, but have the stock for the Classiche.
     
    SoCal1 likes this.
  4. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
    1,212
    Los Angeles
    For the love of god these prices are completely insane. $1,813 for an oil change! And why would a 10K mile car need a clutch and flywheel? The best one is $3,441 to swap mufflers. That's an hourly rate to rival a midtown Manhattan corporate lawyer.
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    that would include price of the stock muffler. correct me if I'm wrong Florida people, but I believe Exotic Performance Engineering was highly respected until owner passed away unexpectedly. certainly Norwoods is respected.
     
  6. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 3, 2007
    16,412
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Nostradamus
    I keep seeing the top needing repaired after paying top dollar for the repair. What’s up with that?
     
    johnk... likes this.
  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I think the prior owner fixes were mainly cosmetic and mechanically didn't get it right until Norwoods.
     
    ShineKen likes this.
  8. JRNY13

    JRNY13 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2014
    8
    Massachusetts
    Full Name:
    Ryan
    I can't believe the cost of ownership scares people away from 355s...
     
  9. jimpo1

    jimpo1 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 30, 2001
    24,510
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    Jim E
    I don’t know what you mean, don’t all cars cost $90,000 for 3000 miles? :D
     
  10. Targatime

    Targatime Formula 3

    Feb 22, 2014
    1,212
    Los Angeles
    You can buy perfect stock mufflers all day long for a few hundred bucks. They're not a wear item. And what explains the oil change?

    My theory on these ludicrous service bills is they're part of how some Ferrari owners derive meaning. It wouldn't feel like they were having an exclusive and special experience if an oil change cost around what it does on a BMW. It needs to be a four-figure number.
     
  11. ChipG

    ChipG Formula 3

    May 26, 2011
    1,722
    Santa Monica, CA
    ha
     
  12. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 3, 2007
    16,412
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Nostradamus
  13. GTO Joe

    GTO Joe Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 15, 2013
    989
    Charlotte, NC
    Full Name:
    Joseph Troutwine
    When I read the original post and saw those numbers my first thought was a saying from the great Bob Uecker during a MLB broadcast, "JUST a bit outside". o_O I know service costs can vary all over the place but some of these I see on F Chat are over the top. From my recent own experience:
    1. '66 Pontiac GTO 6 Qts of Penzoil & filter = $39.95 (local repair shop)
    2. C7 Vette dry sump motor, 10Qts Mobil 1 5/30 & filter = $125. (Hendrick Chevrolet)
    3. 911TT, 10Qts Mobil 1 European 0/40 & filter = $399.00 (Hendrick Porsche)
    4. 348 (and former Cavallino participant), 10Qts Shell 5/40 & filter = "Priceless" ( Foreign Cars Italia)
    I get ribbing from some of my Ferrari friends about my fondness for my Vettes but I just smile to myself and pat my wallet. Thankfully I have always enjoyed working on my cars so most of the time I just do it myself and forgo the expensive "receipt". I have had my "Red Lady" for nine years and have done all the annual fluid exchanges myself. Great therapy to spend a day in the garage with her. ;)
    PS One final point. Doing it yourself gives you a great excuse to explain to the wife how you can justify the latest and greatest tool purchase to do the job. You know, like the $1,000 air compressor to properly operate the coolant vacuum tool. :D
     
  14. Jakuzzi

    Jakuzzi Formula 3

    Mar 26, 2005
    2,072
    PR, TX, GV
    Full Name:
    Jaime
    Great "veiled sale" thread :) ..... I assume you will sell it for $45,000.00? ;)
     
  15. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I said "2 year", all fluids and inspection. I agree it still seems high, I would expect about $750 from Norwoods for all of this, but their hours would have only been 2-3.

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    ShineKen likes this.
  16. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I would get pennies on the dollar for the service and Classiche. Numbers wise since I will have very little expenses except oil until the next major, is just to drive it and have fun the next 6 years. That will also give me the opportunity at a Platinum or two. Who knows what the market will do, but getting a Ferrari up to "your" standards and selling without fun is a lose-lose.
     
    john a barnes, Sav35, Blerter and 4 others like this.
  17. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    10,629
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    When I see these 2 year services I always ask myself who does this on a daily driver? Power steering fluid every 2 years? Antifreeze every 2 years with modern antifreeze? Gear box oil every 2 years? Even brake fluid every 2 years.

    WHO DOES THIS ON THEIR DAILY DRIVER?

    I know people who don't change their underwear that often. :D
     
  18. WATSON

    WATSON Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 9, 2010
    21,611
    WI
    I have owned my 355 for over 10 years, had two majors done on it, corrected the F1 system and fixed every little thing along the way. I have driven over 30,000 miles in the car.

    As a reference, my total 10 year expanse is less than half of what you have spent. In fact, it is almost a third.
     
  19. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    I would say you are 95% right, most Ferraris aren't driven like they were engineered to be driven. For the 5% driving 5-10k miles a year at "red" RPM's and heavy braking I would recommend even more often for most of those things. Challenge car with only 100-200 miles a weekend we were brake flush every weekend and oils every 3-4 weekends. When you are running that hard you pay particular attention to temps and focusing on antifreeze is the first step, even going straight water.
     
  20. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,292
    socal
    Awesome Rob!
     
  21. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    good for you. when is the last time you had your major done? did you have an independent do all the work, or do you do some yourself? I have seen a huge inflation of prices among independents the last 5 years and they are still 3x busier than they would like to be. Norwoods is now $155 an hour, I remember when they were less than $100 even just 10 years ago. Here was Norwoods hourly...

    2005 - $91
    2009 - $108
    2014 - $120
    2016 - $130
    2022 - $155

    The good thing about Norwoods is they have some of the best techs like James Patterson and Michael Luongo and their hours aren't inflated. I know Matthew Burns was highly respected, but I agree looking at some of these invoices although the rate was only $125, the hours seem very inflated.

    I think most of you are justified with the cost concerns, but...
    1. Ferraris can be like planes, done properly the expense isn't the price of entry, but price of playing. The #1 indicator of broke dicks that can't afford their Ferraris are complaining about costs from respected independents like Exotic Performance or Norwoods when they are the most experienced at what they do. How many Ferraris do we see with delayed majors and owners afraid to drive them hard? Ferrari Protective Services (FPS) should reposes every one of these. :D
    2. DIY'ers or cheapskates are hypocritical. Although it may be justified for their own car as they know their own ability and exactly what was done, each one of these would devalue a car they're buying if it had DIY work, incomplete maintenance, or delayed maintenance.
    3. These Independents are more experienced at our aging Ferraris, even more so than most dealerships. Yes they are expensive, but part of that too is price of parts. One thing I've been impressed with over the years at Norwoods is how James is skilled at finding the best parts at the best deals, also knowing which ones and where to have parts just rebuilt. I honestly wish Norwoods was $250 an hour so there would be less demand and I could get my car in and out quicker, that has been my only complaint lately. They are just way too busy, so need to raise prices to match the market.
     
    Sav35, Ferrari55whoa and crinoid like this.
  22. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    10,629
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Yes, Rob, if it's on the track, totally different. But I don't know who is driving these cars 5-10k mile a year at red line, etc. If they were there would be a lot more high mileage cars out there. ;)
     
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  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
    Staff Member Admin Miami 2018 Owner

    Dec 1, 2000
    59,406
    Southlake, TX
    Full Name:
    Rob Lay
    Because we know the 95%, but honestly it is more than 99%. I've come close before I use to drive the 328 5k a year, 3-4 rallies driving 90% hard as track, plus 3-4 track events. I would put appropriate fluid changes at bleed brakes every event, flush once a year, oil twice a year, and trans once a year.
     
    Sav35 likes this.
  24. WillskiGT

    WillskiGT Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 12, 2017
    423
    100% - have not seen behavior like this on any other marque's forums. Most people would be ashamed of getting fleeced. Instead, Ferrari owners brag about how much they spend. It's hilarious.

    I will side with Rob on brake fluid and oil changes (though I would never use a 15W50 as I do occasionally drive my cars in cold weather). I change brake fluid 2x a year on my performance cars that see track time. Oil is changed at most every 2 track days. I DIY those items so am not getting bent over a barrel and they both are cheap insurance.
     
  25. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    10,629
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Comical Rob.
    :(
     

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