360 - I need to find a 360 'whisperer' in Nor Cal. Anyone? | FerrariChat

360 I need to find a 360 'whisperer' in Nor Cal. Anyone?

Discussion in '360/430' started by ketel, Apr 10, 2022.

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  1. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    #1 ketel, Apr 10, 2022
    Gang,

    My '03 gated 360 Spider's running issues, well-chronicled here, have not abated. I have now reached the "good money after bad" part of my one year of 360 ownership.

    To recap, on cold start the vehicle will sometimes fire but it's sluggish, almost stalling. Then, usually, both banks wake up after a few seconds and the vehicle idles ok. After this, I can sometimes drive the vehicle without incident for 10-15 mins. Then, suddenly, the vehicle will stall or drop down to limp mode. Once in limp mode, the throttle response goes to basically nothing. I can't get above 1000 rpm. The engine note is low, like it's on one bank. I might be able to drive 1-2 mph as long as I'm on flat ground. Any grade whatsoever and I'm screwed,

    Other times, when trying to start I will simply get an amber "ASR" message on the dash in place of the usual green "CHECK OK" message. During these times I get a no crank/no start. No clicking, nothing.

    I have done everything I can think of to correct the running issues:
    1. Had fuel injectors removed and cleaned
    2. Removed and reflashed both ECUs by a 360 specialist in the UK.
    3. Reflashed the ECUs again to delete the pesky immobilizer. (We thought that was the issue. Nope)
    4. Had the ECUs rebuilt/repaired by an ECU specialist.
    5. Replaced countless fuses and relays related to the fuel system/delivery.

    Evidently, in 360 Spiders specifically there is a design flaw whereby the passenger side ECU gets heat damaged over time due to its placement over the engine/headers. With no heat shield protecting the RHS ECU, components get damaged and connectivity issues result. The only solution is to replace the ECU entirely ($$$$) or to have the ECU rebuilt by a specialist ($$). I went the rebuild route.

    I got the rebuilt ECUs back last week, installed them over the weekend, and she ran fine for 15 minutes then stalled. I started the vehicle again and she again went into limp mode as before. Engine runs barely but no power. I turned off the ignition, waited a while so the engine could cool off, tried again and got the dreaded "ASR" message and no crank/no start condition. Then I called the tow truck driver and flatbedded it home. Oh fun.

    I now need to pay the piper and bring the 360 to a specialist who understands these complex issues. I am now fully stumped and out of ideas. As are other Ferrari-knowledable DIYer buddies.

    Can anyone recommend a solid independent Ferrari specialist in the SF Bay Area. Obi Wan you're my only hope.

    ketel
     
  2. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,252
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    #2 360trev, Apr 10, 2022
    You have a pm



    Sent from my CPH2145 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,645
    Silicon Valley
    #3 Need4Spd, Apr 10, 2022
    PM sent. Also, have you checked the other common faults/solutions, such as a new battery, loose ground to the alternator, MAFS and ignition coils?


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
     
    Kevin Rev'n likes this.
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,367
    socal
    #4 fatbillybob, Apr 10, 2022
    Things are going for big money on BAT.
     
    carguyjohn350 likes this.
  5. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,367
    socal
    #5 fatbillybob, Apr 10, 2022
    Sounds like bad harness ghosts. I always think if you want a good running Ferrari you have to have good basics. I think I have no problems because of this. Fuseboxes all look like Lugi threw pasta out of a bowl and into a shoebox. Open a Ferrari fuse box and tell me I'm wrong. The newest 360 has almost 20 year old wiring. I have cut younger connectors off to expose corroded oxidized undersized wires on newer Ferraris. Everyone wants stock but stock Ferrari isn't very good and FNA factory guys can't do anything not factory. If the ECU gets hot shield it and or duct some air to it. Racers do what needs to be done to keep cars running. I take that attitude when working on these cars because I do it for me and my car's reliability. Only after you have reliable basics can you effectively go after what is connected to it.
     
    robertjskelton, DBomb117, clean512 and 2 others like this.
  6. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 25, 2019
    1,738
    Memphis, TN
    Full Name:
    John
    #6 EastMemphis, Apr 10, 2022
    @ketel - Have you considered your throttle bodies as the problem? A bad throttle body, one that draws too many amps, can cause the right ECU to overheat and the solder joints fail. If you rebuild the ECU but leave the same throttle bodies, the exact same thing can happen again.

    When a throttle body fails, the ECU goes into limp mode, which is like 20% of throttle max. If you're seeing this kind of condition, it could very well be that one or both of your throttle bodies have failed.

    The ASR light is a mystery though. You didn't mention what trouble codes are being thrown. What are you seeing there?
     
    Need4Spd likes this.
  7. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    Jul 2, 2017
    10,079
    Miami and Bay Area
    #7 Natkingcolebasket69, Apr 10, 2022
    Go see Juan at Grand Prix or Roselli. They will fix it for u


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    RSG360 and ketel like this.
  8. Ferrarista98

    Ferrarista98 Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 7, 2018
    258
    Full Name:
    Jason L
    #8 Ferrarista98, Apr 10, 2022
    Or the guys at ISSIMI in Redwood City. They are expensive but will certainly get the car running the way it should. My car was previously serviced by Tony at Modena Motors, also in Redwood City and I can say his work is done well based on what I’m seeing on the car as I continue the maintenance myself. In the city, T&R does a lot of Ferraris as well and might also be worth a call.
     
    ketel likes this.
  9. Kevin Rev'n

    Kevin Rev'n Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2009
    23,049
    Honolulu
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    #9 Kevin Rev'n, Apr 10, 2022
    I didn't see but did you replace/clean your MAF's? How is your airfilter? Are you running a K&N where the oil can get to the MAF's?
     
  10. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    #10 ketel, Apr 10, 2022
    Air filters are stock, but new. Just replaced.
     
  11. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    #11 ketel, Apr 10, 2022
    yes, that's the next rabbit hole to go down. @yelcab and I are sourcing someone who can rebuild the throttle bodies.
     
  12. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    #12 ketel, Apr 10, 2022
    Agreed. I forgot to mention in my long list of things already done to resolve the issue that @yelcab (Mitchell) and I went through the wiring harness and soldered/re-grounded all the questionable contact points. I can't say the wiring harness is now "good as new" because OEM Ferrari is basically dog poop, but the wiring harness is now pretty much state of the art.
     
    robertjskelton likes this.
  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    26,367
    socal
    #13 fatbillybob, Apr 10, 2022
    Good! How is the fuse box?
     
  14. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 25, 2019
    1,738
    Memphis, TN
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    John
    #14 EastMemphis, Apr 10, 2022
    Need4Spd likes this.
  15. SoftwareDrone

    SoftwareDrone F1 Veteran
    Sponsor Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 19, 2004
    7,534
    San Jose, California
    Full Name:
    Mike
    #15 SoftwareDrone, Apr 11, 2022
    I had the same problem. Driving down the road, then dead. Sometimes for a second or two, sometimes several seconds. This went on for years. I replaced EVERYTHING.
    The problem ended up being the ground wire for the ABS. It is connected to the front firewall via a threaded stud screwed into a rivnut on the front firewall. The rivnut itself becomes loose from the firewall. Drilling this rivnut out and pressing in a new one fixed the problem.
     
    Qavion, Need4Spd and EastMemphis like this.
  16. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2003
    3,060
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Sean F
    #16 Sean F., Apr 11, 2022
    They are $115 each on Rock Auto (BOSCH OEM UNITS). Just put in new ones.
     
    BrettC likes this.
  17. EastMemphis

    EastMemphis Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    May 25, 2019
    1,738
    Memphis, TN
    Full Name:
    John
    #17 EastMemphis, Apr 11, 2022
    Be nice if it were true. The stock of Ferrari part number 171716, aka Bosch 0280750038 is exhausted. You may find one available on eBay for $2k+ but who knows how "new" those are.
     
  18. ksanjana

    ksanjana Karting

    Oct 28, 2014
    112
    Houston, TX
    #18 ksanjana, Apr 11, 2022
    Trevor is the man, once you have the above things sorted, I would get his full tune & all the problems gone! Just like magic!!


    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  19. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,380
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    #19 tbakowsky, Apr 11, 2022
    What are the fault codes? Stuff like this does not happen with out at least throwing a code for somthing.
     
    vrsurgeon likes this.
  20. BrettC

    BrettC Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2012
    1,978
    Calif
    Full Name:
    Brett
    #20 BrettC, Apr 11, 2022
    I got brand new bosch MAFs from autozone for around $125 each, everyone else wanted 3 times the money, same exact Bosch part#, AH, throttle bodys just a little different than MAF's Tony at T & R is quite good and has the leonardo tools to find and fix it.
     
    robertjskelton and Need4Spd like this.
  21. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2003
    3,060
    Kansas
    Full Name:
    Sean F
    #21 Sean F., Apr 12, 2022
    Oh my bad, I was thinking MAF, not throttle bodies.
     
    EastMemphis likes this.
  22. SFFerrari

    SFFerrari Karting

    Jul 21, 2013
    221
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    LanceD
    #22 SFFerrari, Apr 18, 2022
    Had the same problem on my 2004 360 Spider. After literally months of after-hours investigating, Tony at T&R Automotive in San Francisco figured it out - shorting in the wiring harness! Go see Tony immediately and take advantage of the hours he put into it and the $$ I spent! Tell him Lance sent you!
     
  23. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    #23 ketel, Apr 19, 2022
    My DTC reader is unable to communicate with the vehicle to pull the codes. Which, obviously, means the vehicle cannot be smogged either. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. ketel

    ketel Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,352
    Sausalito, CA
    #24 ketel, Apr 19, 2022
    Given all the work done so far with nothing to show for it, I think the only logical next step is to find some "good" ECUs I can borrow from another 360 and install them in mine to see if the running problems persist. If they do, then I've eliminated the ECUs from the equation as the culprit and I can begin looking at MAFs, throttle bodies, etc. Thoughts?

    ketel
     
  25. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,380
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    #25 tbakowsky, Apr 19, 2022
    The no communication is a bit of a puzzle. This should not be an issue. If the car runs and drives I highly doubt the ecu's are an issue. You must solve the communication problem first.

    Any aftermarket electronics in the car? Stereo, radar..etc? I would be checking the back of the obd connector for tampering..if all looks.good..head over to the fuse panels behined the seats and start checking power supplies.
     
    Qavion likes this.
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