Attention Ferrari Master Technician | FerrariChat

Attention Ferrari Master Technician

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Kent Adams, Apr 18, 2022.

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  1. Kent Adams

    Kent Adams Formula 3
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    Sep 11, 2020
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    I know we have one on FChat. I'm looking for someone that has access to service bulletin 1661 dealing with the cause of the F430 manifold failures primary cause.
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,313
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    Jimmie
    If you need it the bulletin has often been posted in the 430 section
     
  3. Kent Adams

    Kent Adams Formula 3
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    Sep 11, 2020
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    Thanks Jimmie, I found it. I'm wondering, because 1661 states the reason for the replacement was to stop rattling noise and replace with stronger welds, if Ferrari updated the reason for this need. I've read that manifolds failed not because of welds, but because of design. What my understanding is that the manifold design was flawed due to the inflexible anchor points. On another forum, someone that claims to be a Ferrari technician said that heat was the SOLE reason for the manifolds cracking, not the design of the manifolds nor the brackets that held the manifolds to the exhaust allowing no movement.

    I've uploaded the service bulletin in case someone in the future has this same question.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    Jun 9, 2004
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    Vern
    On the 355 it was definitely heat and the SOLE reason for their failure. I took pictures of mine and Brian(Rifle driver) used them in an article in Forza Mag. The tubes were melted and had bubbles in the tubes; ie, like someone blowing glass. I can’t find my pics but I try to find the article in Forza. Ferraris stainless that used was not up the task.
     
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  5. Kent Adams

    Kent Adams Formula 3
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    Sep 11, 2020
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    The F430 uses an entirely different manifold than the 355.
     
  6. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    Well duh, I know that but the material used could be the same. Ferrari had trouble with the 355, 360 and 430 just trying to give extra info.
     
  7. Kent Adams

    Kent Adams Formula 3
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    Sep 11, 2020
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    Thanks for the input. Not trying to be rude. I'm looking for information specifically attributable to the F430.
     
  8. oharal

    oharal Rookie

    Apr 4, 2022
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    Bob Saget
    I can't speak to Ferrari related specifics but generally speaking what you have said about the issue being related to the design and not the welds themselves is one in the same from an engineering standpoint. Metals crack due to fatigue (imagine bending a spoon repeatedly until it breaks) and the fatigue life of a weld is basically a guess. A good design protects the welded joint from levels of cyclic stress so the fatigue life is not a concern. Again don't know about the specifics about the part itself but if there is a new part that goes on, there is likely something to add additional stiffness to the part itself or isolate it from another part that is putting stress into it so the weld isn't mechanically cycled as much.
     
  9. CoreyNJ

    CoreyNJ Formula 3
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    Apr 17, 2006
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    New Jersey Shore
    What I find interesting from the service bulletin is that it seems there were multiple revisions more than the discussed MKI vs MKII.

    I have assembly number 83720 for my MY2009 F430. It seems that there was a version for the 05 to 07 which had the extra sensor (MKI), in 2008 (starting assembly74557), the emissions changed so there was a new Manifold, but I would expect since they already had manifold failures by then they did some revision to it, then at assembly 79949 they had a new manifold and also a new one for the earlier pre-assembly 74557. So really the latest manifold should be though of as MKIII not MKII and really only the last assemblies of the F430 came with them from the factory.
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    34,108
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    Brian Crall
    If you are looking for a true statement for the failure of anything in a Ferrari TSB you will be looking a very long time.
     
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  11. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
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    Mar 1, 2012
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    Glen
    I've seen a 355 failed header and you can see it's virtually melted and bubbled. My 430 header had a simple crack right next to a weld. I still say the rigid rear brackets are to blame. If the exhaust can't expand length ways then it's going to stress and it will fail at the weakest point, which is the smallest weakest tube, the header pipes.
     

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