Alfa 2022-2027 | FerrariChat

Alfa 2022-2027

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by F1tommy, Jan 12, 2022.

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  1. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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  2. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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  3. Simon

    Simon Moderator
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    Just before Christmas, I was at a toll booth on the autostrada between Turin and Milan, a Tonale test car was in the booth next to me. I liked it. I'm sure it will sell well in europe.
     
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  4. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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  5. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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  6. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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  7. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Hopefully the EV Alfas will have the visual appeal of the new Giulias...but all the EVs are just going to use the same basic engine technology with nothing that is any different than the engines in all the other EVs. There will be no reason to look under the hood, there will be no discussions of how this engine sounds compared that that engine. Perhaps some fake noise, like smart phone ring tones...but no longer a real engine.
     
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  8. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    After they go electric I will never buy another alfa, no reason to. I think the Japanese companies will continue to build ICE cars for many years to come, so no problem finding them. I also think alot of other companies will continue to build ICE cars and trucks for many years to come, even in Europe after all is said and done. Lithium supply will be the biggest problem along with infrastructure.
     
  9. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    For me, I just plan to keep my 2021 Giulia...scout around for a nice pre-owned Quadrifoglio as people rush to buy the next big thing. So far, a lot of political hot air hasn't replaced fossil fuels. Renting, leasing, subscribing to a four wheeled cordless toaster doesn't excite me. Driving my Giulia up on Mulholland drive the other day, did.
     
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  10. isuk

    isuk F1 Rookie

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    It looks like someone in Stellantis in France leaked the launch video.

     
  11. FiatRN

    FiatRN Formula Junior

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    "Perhaps some fake noise, like smart phone ring tones...but no longer a real engine."
    BMW already does this - with their cars that Have a gasoline powered engine.
     
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  12. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    #15 F1tommy, Apr 9, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2022
    Alfa Romeo news... Key to high profits, don't sell as many cars, keeping demand up :)

    Already a hint of change...

    "Imparato is also a perfectionist, which is why he delayed the launch of the Tonale. He wasn’t happy with the electric-only range of the plug-in hybrid variant, nor the “Alfa Romeo touch and feel” of the regular hybrid."

    Turin luck: Alfa Romeo boss details radical comeback plan | Autocar
     
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  13. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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  14. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    The Gulia and Stelvio were developed in record time by a tight team charged by Sergio with deloping Alfas. they clearly had minimal interference and the two greatest cars (in their categories) of this era were developed.

    Rebadged FIATs is a denuding of the brand which had hard won gains with the Gulia Stevio. But its not as though the Italians haven't learned that lesson 5 or 6 times already. Plus side profile looks like a land rover product.

    The sad part is under stellantis most products seem to be being blandd out. Look at the new gand cherokee. The they're dropping the hemi motors. yes there is a twin turbo inline 6 coming, but anyone who thinks a challenger will sell without a v8 burble has no idea what makes a muscle car tick.

    Still maybe they'll get ti right going forwards. Im not against an electric alfa provided it rides and steers like the Guilia. I also think that they will soon realize that the USa at least is going to be a 50% Ice market comes 2030 so keeping Ice is a possible plan. Still its not as though large corps have not made stunningly poor decisions in the past, in which case we'll be drivign Genesis Alfa knockoffs.
     
  15. boxerman

    boxerman F1 World Champ
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    Great article well worth a read.

    "The problem, if anything, is that when I put the cars in the dealerships, customers must be reassured, from the density of the charging points to the ease of restoring the full energy to their car and this aspect is not in the hands of the manufacturers but of the States. Second, when you go to recharge you have to be able to count on the fact that there is enough energy in the network, so countries must make sure they have an energy strategy. We've spent the last five years explaining that focusing only on mobility devices, i.e. vehicles, can be dangerous because it's an entire ecosystem that we need to embrace, with a 360-degree approach. In our eyes it is clear that the "delivery times" of this transformation do not depend on the builders, but on the energy side. And these times are a challenge for our societies, regardless of the war in Ukraine. And that's why nuclear power is back on the table. And to be able to ask some of the ecological politicians if they are happy about it. We go back to talking about nuclear power as a consequence of the fact that we need clean energy, after which someone could argue whether nuclear power can really be defined as such, but the fact is that now you need electric power - if you do not have it you can not have current mobility - and as clean as possible: wind, solar and even nuclear. I as an industry will be 100% electric from 2030, I have stated. But do we have a clean energy strategy ready for that date? This is a question to turn to political leaders. And the same can be asked about the charging infrastructure. And at that point we must also consider the need for states to finance these policies, in the face of the decrease in revenues from taxation on petroleum products. The challenge is all for politics."

    "I think there would have been a much better way to attack the issue of global warming at much lower costs to society. Do you want to know what my recommendation to political leaders would be? Very simple: today the average age of road vehicles in Europe is 11 years. The average emissions for a car 11 years or older are about 170 grams per kilometer. Let's take a B-segment hatchback of today, mild hybrid, which sells at a price that the middle class can afford, we are on 100 grams: therefore, with adequate scrapping subsidies, we could remove the old scrap from the roads replacing them with a new mild hybrid, which means less than 70 grams of CO2 per km per car, multiplied by a huge car base. The impact on the environment would immediately be very strong because of these volumes. By choosing such a path you can continue to work on pure electric cars, earning you time, to improve technology and infrastructure, with a smooth transition. Why is it not done? For dogmatism. The opposite of pragmatism. It is not an alternative to electric, but complementary. But that is not what the European Union wants to hear. I was president of Acea for two years, and for two years I spoke in the desert..."
     
  16. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

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    completely disagree, the Giorgio platform was constantly delayed, so much so that it cost Harald Wester his job as the Head of Maserati and Alfa. Marchionne was pushing to get the platform into production, where he failed to study his history. He replaced Wester with Reid Bigland from Chrysler and the power base of Maserati/Alfa shifted from Italy to Auburn Hills.

    So began the mass appointing of Maserati/Alfa franchises to CDJR dealers and the collapse of sales. Tavares is a far superior CEO to anyone currently in the automotive industry.
     
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  17. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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  18. classic308

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  19. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    Not sure if Alfa Romeo or even Maserati are expensive enough to allow for this, but Porsche and Ferrari have plans. This should be an expensive way to save ICE, atleast until they backtrack on the silly unrealistic mandates and allow regular fuel again after 2035. That will happen!!

    Porsche, Ferrari's Plan To Save Combustion Engines Involves "eFuels" | ZeroHedge

    Porsche, Ferrari's Plan To Save Combustion Engines Involves "eFuels"
    Tyler Durden's Photo
    BY TYLER DURDEN
    TUESDAY, MAR 07, 2023 - 03:15 AM

    Quote:
    With many automakers transitioning from petrol-powered vehicles to electrified ones, Porsche and Ferrari are pursuing a new strategy by concentrating on the advancement of eFuels to preserve gas-powered engines. This decision follows the European Commission's delay last week of the proposed 2035 ban on new internal combustion engine vehicles as the commission prepares to carve out a role for eFuels after 2035.

    "Porsche and Ferrari's status as national icons was enough to move their governments to challenge the EU plan last week just days before a scheduled vote," Bloomberg wrote.

    Germany's Transport Minister Volker Wissing told the European Commission that he would withhold support for the approval of the new engine standards to end the sale of new combustion engine cars unless there were a plan for eFuels post-2035. Italy also threatened to fight the reforms.

    European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen met with German Chancellor Olaf Schoz on Sunday, discussing a comprise that would likely involve eFuels.

    Germany and Italy are home to the world's top sportscar manufacturers. There has been growing opposition against Brussels' plan to ban petrol-powered engines. That's because who in their right mind would purchase an all-electric Porsche 911?


    The alternative route, mainly for sportscar brands, is the development of eFuels as a climate-neutral way to preserve combustion engines—just something about the sound of a twin-turbo V-8 or V-6 that captivates motorheads.

    While most carmakers are pouring tens of billions into the EV shift, Porsche has also invested in an e-fuel plant in Chile, partly because the manufacturer doesn't plan to make its 911 sports car with a plug. Operating combustion-engine vehicles in a climate-neutral way could also help speed up the decarbonization of the transport sector, according to a Porsche spokesman. Existing vehicle stock should be included in the push to lower CO2 emissions faster, he added. Ferrari has said it's pursuing alternative fuels to keep making combustion-engine cars that preserve its heritage.

    Proponents of e-fuels, say they're essentially renewable electricity that's been converted into a combustible, liquid fuel. To make it, scientists combine captured carbon dioxide with hydrogen that was split from water in a process powered by renewable energy, creating a synthetic hydrocarbon fuel. When burned in a combustion engine, the e-fuels create carbon dioxide. But since it was made from previously captured CO2, they argue it's climate neutral.

    We've outlined the growing resistance among vehicle brands and motorsport organizations that are firm in their belief the combustion engine will be sticking around for years to come.

    Mercedes-AMG Boss Says V-8 Engine Will Be In Demand For "Next Ten Years"

    Formula 1 Boss: We "Will Never Switch To Electric"

    Ducati Says 'Battery Technology Not Ready' For E-Bike

    It's straightforward, the push for eFuels for sportscars will likely preserve the combustion engine, but the cost per gallon might make the cost to operate the vehicle so expensive that only the rich will only be able to afford it.
     
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  20. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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