What Happened with Dino Values!!!

he also had a Daytona, but sold the dino…..

 

"Hagerty crunched #'s from all auctions, and from as many private sales as they can, to arrive at their price guide. If you look at their latest revision, dino prices are pretty close to the bat auctions. It's not just bat reflecting dino prices soaring."- Tim Bowles
Tim-
Hagerty's numbers are far from sacrosanct, but I completely agree that Dino prices are on the rise- and with good reason, as they're very cool cars. That does not change the fact that BaT buyers regularly overpay for driver-quality cars they naively believe are potential Platino winners at Cavallino or an FCA National.
My intent was not to argue that Dinos aren't terrific cars (they are), but rather that BaT prices on almost any Ferrari model are often out of line- there are often better, lower-miles examples contemporaneously for sale at lower prices elsewhere- and of course, those cars can likely be laid eyes on and/or PPI'd, which is tough in any auction format.
Ira

 

Having shopped for both a Dino and Daytona, I've driven a few of each (albeit, just test-drives in the case of the Dino), and have to say that "better" is probably not an applicable word unless you put a lot of qualifiers on it. The two cars are very far apart in what they were intended to be, and while each is an excellent car for its intent, each is also pretty wanting when judged by the measure of the other's intent. Certainly no one would ever mistake one for the other, and I imagine that Ferrari was doing as much as they could to make them as different as possible.

Something that I have always found sort of interesting is the difference between a 246 Dino and a 308GTB(GTS). To me, the 308 is actually a little more kindred to the Daytona in its feel; almost more like a mini-Boxer than a evolved-Dino...

 

From what I've read, the Daytona was an excellent GT built for high speed cruising across Europe, getting from one country to another, in comfort and style. I certainly dismiss the cars 3 GT wins at lemans.

My comment comparing the dino to it, was that the dino was light at 2380 pounds, and with the mid engine layout, better balanced, with lighter steering if you're driving around town, and not blistering on the autostrada. I've never owned a Daytona, didn't imply that, was basing this on articles I've read, and owners comments. Not dismissing Daytonas, I think they're beautiful cars as well, and certainly admire them.

 

Meant to say, I don't dismiss there 3 lemans gt wins. A very impressive accomplishment

 

The "tutorial" was why I'm in the "dino cheering section". Whether the car goes up or down in value doesn't change my "tutorial" opinion of the car. Everything I stated about the car is factual. I'm glad we are in agreement that they are fantastic cars. As far as the droop snout bar car, I never mentioned anything about that car, or it's pricing. The second I saw the first pic of the car on Bat, it looked to me like the front clip had been changed out, and had not been welded in place properly. I was shocked the car brought the price it did, and surprised the seller didn't accept it. BTW, Hagerty does show 275 2 cams up in price, even the 4 cams, except the alloy cars.

 

Tim, does it have any bearing if you own a Dino or any Ferrari, for that matter?

I own 2 Dino, but have never driven either. Does that disqualify me in the assessment or evaluative fields? And if I were to own
other Ferrari, what is the relevance?
Apparently you own a Dino (congrats), do you own other Ferrari? If not, what is the relativity, and besides, does that raise your status/knowledge?
If you think one man's opinion of Daytona vs. Dino matters, I think this is a highly subjective opinion, and not necessarily true.
To say any Ferrari is better than another, is a total fallacy, as you might extol the virtues of one over the other, bottom line, all Ferrari.
Not F-150 vs, Ram.

Do you own a drill? Is yours the best, most/least valuable, all same brand? Can it outperform the next one?

Personally, think blonde women are prettier that brunettes...does that make me an authority in the field? Only an opinion or viewpoint.
375+, does just that, express an opinion and a viewpoint of the market, just as you are.

Tim, you just joined the Dino section, does that make you more or less of an authority in the Dino field?
Knowledge comes with time and experience, neither, available for sale.
Dino values, have a relation to previous market performance, none written in stone.
There are Dino that are worth more than you can dream or are aware of.

Regards, Alberto

 

One thing i am noticing is more and more of majority of cars presented on BAT are by dealers or part time players who bought the cars very recently and are flipping them on Bat. The major collector car agents or dealers don't play on BAT and their offerings are more quality and professional. Some trading hands privately.

 

Alberto,

I was responding to 375+ about his "cheering section" comment about dino owners encouraged about the prices on the uptick. I am grateful that the chunk of money I laid out for my car, that it is appreciating at the moment. I have seen on other sites, where the dino is dismissed as not a "real" Ferrari, because it lacks a prancing horse on the nose, or a 12 cylinder engine. His comment I took as a put down, and many times the negative comments about the cars, are made by people who have never even sat in one. I do believe that owning a car and driving it, gives me insight into what the car is like to own, the good and bad. The comparison between Daytonas and Dino's was only that one was more of a gt built for high speed cruising on European highways where you could fully optimize the cars speed and comfort. Certainly nothing negative aimed at daytonas, but I think the cars are better suited for different types of driving. As you stated, 375+ was allowed his opinion, I believe this site is set up for other opinions as well, including mine.

You know who I am, I bought a belly pan and front nose panel from you last year. I live outside Nashville.

Regards,

Tim

 

Hello Tim, yes I distinctly remember you and the replacement nose.

Generally speaking, and nothing personal, 375+ is a very objective poster in this community,
huge experience in the Ferrari environment, and think his comments are very apropos.

Possibly you may have read 'between the lines', yet I do not find anything 'untoward' in his opinions.
Of course, we all have our opinions, whatever they may be, and you are right.

Kind regards, Alberto

PS. would love to see your new nose, not to mention your Dino,
and don't think too much about the worth of Dino...

 

Alberto,

I will certainly send you pics of the dino when complete. It's been with paint and body for 7 months. I certainly appreciate your contribution to my car.

Regards,

Tim

 

Patience has great rewards Tim!
I think you are way ahead with aifreight

Regards, Alberto

 

Sold for €539,375 plus commission….

….on an Estimate of €350-400,000

 

^ a normal gts( non c and f) recently sold for a lot more than that.

 

Time will tell, but I believe the buyer got a very good deal.

 

Agree

 

Look at the details and the auction description (that car IMO was a disaster needing total restoration) - plus it was a US spec Dino selling in Europe - and it still brought EUR 540k! I would imagine that based upon that result a top-quality C&F car must be 750 now

 

Once you take hammer, add in RM commission structure and VAT, you are at $764k+ US

 

Price of 539, 375 Euros includes buyer's premium.

 

539,375.00 Euros = 561,821.45 US Dollars

 

And yes, auction houses always report the `all-in' amount and not the hammer price.

 

Glen, I looked at the info and don’t see what your seeing about needing restoration. Where are you looking ?

 

Also, no VAT as the car has been in the EU for quite sometime - so 539k EUR is the final price.

Perhaps I was a little harsh in using the term "total restoration", but nevertheless it had many detail items that are totally incorrect and lead me to question the shop that maintained the car while it remained undriven all the years that it was owned by the actress in Paris. For instance, the engine bay has wrong airbox, fuel and oil lines, clamps, etc. No US spec air emissions components (yea, I know I wouldn't want them installed either, but nice to have if one ever wishes to restore back to original), partial tool kit, no books, and the US side markers IN ADDITION to EUR spec ones (one of these has to go, which would require some paint work on the front fenders, or more if an owner decides to keep the Euro look and get rid of the US spec side markers, turn signals, etc. Also, the top is painted body color, which is incorrect (unless it is one of the handful that Matthias has documented as coming from the factory this way). I also had someone with "boots on the ground" inspect the car for me as I have a client here in the states looking for a Dino - My report was that the car would need significant work to get into good driving condition, mainly from lack of use.

 

I’ve noticed (and often referenced) this ^^ being a fairly common on (most) traditional auction venues for years, well, decades actually.
And now with increasing “competition” arising in the already crowded field of online auctions (some seemingly established/operated by various dealers themselves), it was just a matter of time practice becoming common on BaT also.

 

This looks like quite a nice example.. I wonder what they are asking…

https://copleymotorcars.com/?showroom=1972-ferrari-246-dino-gts


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