812 Replacement Rumors

I would definitely buy one!

 

That idea was so terrible that it begs the question if it was done on purpose to prove a flawed argument.

 

We all would buy one. Only (for EU residents) to be thrown right into the pits of Tartarus, only after descending through Dante’s 9 stages of Hell!
And Ferrari would be sentenced to only manufacturing caps and weird looking shoes….!

 

The LaFerrari, P1 and 918 are already part of the automotive pantheon.

The 812 is indeed great, but if we take market values as an indicator (I don't agree that they are by the way), so is the SF90 Stradale. The SF90 is also appreciating.


Some people are making a mistake. They think that enthusiasts are only those who live in the '80s...

 

Hahaha... you have a way with words my friend

 

I doubt that their rating and their desiderability are those of the F 50, Mc Laren F 1 and Carrera GT...
Just a fact.
LF is the least appreciated of all Ferrari hypercars.
Look at the sales...

 

I don’t think the pricing on the SF90 will hold up over time. What happens to the SF90 value when it’s surpassed? The next iteration will likely feature more than 1200 combined HP, lighter weight, and, mercifully, less polarizing styling. Plus, the SF90 is a brand new vehicle. That the 812 is commanding over MSRP in some cases despite being 6 (SIX!!) years old is remarkable.

The following are strictly my opinions. I am painting with a fairly broad brush here, and I understand that exceptions exist. I do think that the SF90 fits perfectly into the “new Ferrari”. More super high end designer luxury good that makes a lifestyle statement about the owner. Full disclosure, I passed on my SF90 allocation very early on. Poor financial decision for sure, but I was not excited about the platform, and decided to pipe that money in the direction of other cars that represent the pinnacle of ICE (765LT, Pista, and STO).

 

Exactly...if they had put a manual in the Panamera few would have sold.

 

I agree but would add that the 812GTS is even more compelling (to me anyway).

 

Me too…hence why I have one on order!

 

Different era cars with different appeals, cannot really compare in my opinion. Very different cars from an experience point of view too.

 

For the vast majority of driving/commuting, electric motors are simply superior. Instantaneous torque, better than NA response time, super fine grained (and highly responsive) traction control if you have close to 1 motor per wheel. If you're a car company and you want to be competitive in the market you can't ignore this. It's not a perfect technology in all dimensions, you do lose sound, but I'd argue that the golden era of Ferrari sound is gone for all but the V12.

For the driving enthusiast, no one has built a truly fun EV. I suspect Ferrari could pull this off. I was completely uninterested in the SF90 until I drove one. Completely changed my mind. That thing is incredibly fun to drive. I felt that Ferrari lost the steering feel crown to McLaren for most of the past few years but with the SF90 regained it. I ordered one immediately. I can only imagine the 296 will be just as fun if not more. I don't believe these cars will hold their value, but that hasn't been true for Ferraris for a while now. Until the recent craziness you could pick up a 360 for what, $60K?

The Ferrari sound took a huge step back with the move to the turbocharged V8. If they bring their driving dynamics to a full EV (and modernize their electronics/HMI/software) I suspect they'll build something great.

I do wish they'd build something like the GMA T.50 and offer it to more than a few people, but that's a pipe dream. And even if I had one in my garage, I'd still want an EV too.

 

All Ferraris are least appreciated when they are about 10 years old. Still, the LaFerrari sells for the same price as an Enzo, or an F50. More importantly than that though, it is a much superior car than either of them.

I fathom that neither of us is a soothsayer, so we don't know what the future holds. For the time being Stradales are sold at about 1 million though... I guess people like them. Again, that doesn't mean anything about the car's technical merits.

 

I reckon that people do like them, if for somewhat different reasons than has been the historical norm.

 

I am not a market expert, but my guess is that people like them because they are freaking quick and automotive masterpieces. Isn't that what Ferraris have always been about, at the end of the day?

 

look at the market for factory 6 speed f430s

some going for 300k

the NA cars will have their day in another 10 years

 

I tell you this in a friendly way, but you should question yourself about this obsession with speed which, with the current powers, is of no interest on our roads exept marketing.
A successful Ferrari is the pleasure of the 4 senses (taste is not taken into account )

 

day355 - Let me fix it for you -

A successful production Ferrari is the pleasure of the 4 senses.

His obsession with speed is normal (a common trait shared by many who are attracted to the brand), as is your obsession with a romantic/idealistic view of reality in terms of what makes a great production Ferrari (delighting the 4 senses - Luca marketing 101).

Nothing wrong with customers who were initially attracted to the brand via motorsport activities to place greater importance on performance. Its a balancing act.


Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

 

I've licked mine.

 

We should keep in mind that Enzo was obsessed with speed. All he wanted was to win races. Speed is the number one priority of every Ferrari. I am not saying it's the only one; I agree that it should please the senses also. You seem to discard the performance factor altogether though. Ferraris were never about nimbleness, like a Lotuses. Do you think that a new Ferrari with 400 HP and a manual box would be well received today? I don't think so... People would laugh at it as the "slow Ferrari". That's why Enzo himself didn't allow the Dino to bare the Ferrari name.

 

Actually the exact opposite is true. Ferrari has no interest in competing for numbers with the likes of McLaren, Porsche, Lambo, or even AMG. They never post lap times and choose to market exclusivity that's fast enogh, but never try or claim to be the fastest, nor are they. Yes they try to win when they race but that’s the only place they do so in order to sell the brand’s race pedigree.

If a car isn’t the fastest amongst its competition then it better be pretty, be engaging, and sound good. Neither the 812 or next V12 are going to win any races on the street or on the track. At that point might as well have made one as engaging as possible with a manual option … not because it needs to be to sell but because that’s makes you legendary. Things like the 296 just make you profitable.

 

As a kid or young adult I would have agreed with you, before I ever had the fortune to own a Ferrari and just had the posters on my walls. But I hope this is not the case for Ferrari now, because if so they wouldn't be much different than any other manufacturer around that is marching towards a hybrid/electric future... it's called Tesla, now Taycans from Porsche, and soon everyone else

A Plaid makes my Speciale feel so slow it's incomprehensible (at what, 1/4th the cost?), and all day every day and twice on Sundays I would take my Speciale over the Plaid. As day355 alludes to, there is something in this car that makes my 4 senses come alive. The lightness and adjustability of the chassis at speed, the NVH, the linearity of the throttle pedal to response and crescendo, it's just so much more than the sum of it's parts that driving the car becomes an emotional nirvana and true escape from the mundane stuff of regular day to day life. It's only 8 years old (!) but it feels very analog, light, and alive in this tech saturated world we live in...

In fact, any time something silent rolls up to me at a stoplight in my Speciale, I expect to be the loud slow poke in the rearview mirror with a huge grin on my face while the Leaf/i3/Model3/etc smashes the pedal and whizzes away silently at instant speed

 

Perfectly stated, Sam [emoji1360]

 

Why do you say that? They announce 0-100, 0-200 (once even 0-300 in the case of the LaFerrari) numbers, braking performance, as well as Fiorano laptimes for every one of their cars. Ferraris have won many lap battles when tested by magazines. So I don't get what you are saying...

All these are good and dandy, but the Speciale was a very quick car when it came out. Would you think that Ferrari would launch such a car now? There is a reason they launched the 720 CV Pista and the 830 CV 296 in this day and age. Let me ask you this. Would the Maserati MC20, a wonderful car by all accounts, cut it as a Ferrari in today's world?

 

This mule was spotted today in Maranello and the spotter classified it as a 812 Competitizione. To me the mule looks like a 812 SF.




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