812 P-zero stock tyres

I would love to know other owner's experiences with the stock PZ tyres on the 812. I have owned the car for 9 months now and have completed around 3500 miles in the car. It just feels like the car wants to kill me - I have a 720S and Conti GT - these cars behave impeccably on the road and they both feel so stable and planted. It is not the pace of the 812 that's the issue, that's just fine, but the liveliness of the front end, the tramlining on on even roads is just unbelievable. I love the car when it's on nice even roads, the sound (of course), the raw performance is great, the style and look of the car - in Rosso Marenello/Cuoio. But, the stability on less than ideal road surfaces defies my understanding for a car that is a showcase for Ferrari. I either take a punt on putting on some PS2s or I get shot of the car. Its a great shame but I cannot live with the extreme liveliness and instability of how the car is right now. If anyone has any input or experiences regarding tyre choice for the 812 they might share, I would love to hear from them. Thank you very much in advance. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I would try two things-

1. Check/ adjust the alignment

2. Swap to MPS4S tires

I think some of that character will remain, but it should not be as bad. I think the Pirelli are actually nice tires, but it seems they take a longer time to get to operating temp than the Michelin.


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat

 

First of all congrats on a fantastic looking 812 in possibly the very best colour.
I'm assuming you live in the same country as I do namely the UK and if so perhaps I can help. I also bought an 812SF about six months ago and like you the Pirellis were a concern from reading many posts on forums. All my observations are based purely on my personal experiences in a car I absolutely love to bits.
In terms of the Pirellis I believe the reason Ferrari stick with them is wholly a political one as Ferrari and Pirellis share the same nationality.

In terms of the tyres themselves I find them much better than I was led to believe with the one massive caveat is that they are pretty awful when cold. This can be when the tyres themselves are cold as well as the road surfaces temps. They simply don't like cold !
Another point is that nearly all Ferraris have poor geometry when new and invariable need a proper geo from an expert. The roads in the UK are also much poorer then any other country I've been to which further exasperates the problem.
All the above affects the Pirellis and in a nutshell the Pirellis don't suit the 812 in the UK due to our wet cold climate and rough uneven roads.
However all is not lost as you can simply transform the 812 by getting a good geo and replacing the Pirellis with Michelin MP4Ss in K spec which suit the 812 much better.
The 812 also rewards very smooth drivers with minimal inputs both in steering, brakes and throttle and will bite the unwary who don't respect it. A large proportion of new 812s delivered in the UK were traded in with minimal miles as the car terrified the owners who either weren't smooth enough in their inputs or didn't keep their 812 long enough to adapt.
During my test drive the sales guy commented it was very rare indeed to find a driver which gelled with the 812 in the way I did because I was so smooth. Don't get get me wrong as I don't consider myself a particularly skilled driver, just a smooth one.
I intend to switch to the Michelins at the earliest opportunity which is what I suggest you do before parting with one of the greatest Ferraris ever made and probably get the geo checked at the same time.
In the meantime do as I do in our current cold temps and switch the right hand screen to the tyre menu and keep an eye on the tyre temps. I take it real easy at around 9-10C until they go to above 25C which tones down the camber sniffing.

 

I started thinking, typing and editing my post before I read yours but we pretty much agree on all points.

 

Thank you John Owen.
The car is a great car but it is very scary when tyres and road surface temps are low! This morning the tyres were showing 15 deg and the car was, even by my wife's comments whi hates most of my cars, it was really not pleasant to be in. I race a Radical, I get smooth inputs completely but the 812 is like fighting a Leviathan and not at all a pleasure to drive, which is ridiculous! I can see a fantastic car in all of this but right now, I don't like driving it that much much and just feel I would rather drive something I can drive with full confidence. Than you for your comments - where are you based in the UK?

 

Its obviously not your driving if you race Radicals and I hope wasn't insinuating so. I'm based on the West Wales coast which has a very mild maritime climate which although wet, very mild. Think of Seattle in terms of climate. I took my 812 for a blast last Sunday which was cold and damp which was a pretty nervy outing and I took it pretty easy. The solution is fitting MP4Ss which I intend doing and transforms all Ferraris when wet and cold. I fitted a set to my old 458 and drove 165 miles for its annual service to Swindon starting 6AM a couple of years ago in late November. The roads started off 0c with snow and progressed to torrential rain and the 458 instilled 100% confidence in such conditions. It was truly transformative and I strongly suspect would be the same if not more on the 812.
I also had the geo checked and the f/r toe was way out which further improved things.

 

After 8000 km with the PZero on the GTS, I had enough. The tramlining is too much. Good roads here in northern Europe, and yet these things want to hunt unless car is in bumpy road mode or comfort. MPS4S or the TdF shoes. I just don't get it. Why are they using them...

Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

I find that the PZeros are a great tire but drop off quickly when it gets cold. If its less than 60F out I tend to start getting wheel hop and it's time to park the car. 90F out and the tire performs well.

Will be replacing with some Michelin's soon

 

Had the Pirellis on my SF and anything below 50 degrees F(10C) and you take your life for granted. I quickly switched to winter tires for the duration. My GTS has the Michelins which are much better overall both in warm and cooler temps but as winter approaches here in NY I still change over to winter tires.
Performance summer tires simply turn hard as rock in the lower temps and extremely difficult to warm them up to safe temperatures for performance driving. As the NY roads rival some of Englands poor B roads for lack of smoothness I always hit the bumpy road button at startup and only switch back on roads I know to be smooth. My teeth thank me.


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

Good shout on fitting winter tyres if living in a country with cold and/or wet winters. Next question is which are the best winters for the 812, Pirellis or Michelins.?

 

Not that they are remotely the same vehicle, but on my 612 OTO I have the Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 and they are magic. They are also one of the few winter tires in the stock 812 sizes (both front and rear).

I can also wholeheartedly endorse the Michelin PS4S K2 spec.

Bill

 

My UK supplied 812 came with Pirelli’s and I found then terrible at lower temperatures.

Switch to Michelin PS4 and you’ll get a vast improvement especially this time of year.

 

I also plan to switch to Michelin PS4 soon for my 812 GTS. I wasn't sure about the 'K' suffix... is that important? if so, what's the right one?

 

I have the winter pirellis which have worked fine. I have not had the opportunity to try the Michelins


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

Michelins on mine here from factory in the SE US and they are fantastic.

 

I have the Michelins on the GTS from the factory but for warmer weather only and agree they are stupendous compared to the pirellis I had on my SF but for the cold it’s pirelli winter tires as that was what the dealer has available and they work pretty well


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

For those with winters, did you get the same size as the summers or did you size down 10 mm on the width? Thx

 

same size....

 

For Michelin, K= Ferrari spec. The number is the generation. So don’t mix K1 v K2 for example- there can be differences. I believe Pirelli are “F” spec for Ferrari. I’ve had experience with both Pirelli SottoZero and Michelin Pilot Alpin and in the case of my suburban NY area with slushy mucky roads, both are excellent choices for winter performance tires. I’m not sure if I lived in the mountains where its packed down snow and you dont even see the road surface for months if these would be the best choice.


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat

 

I have Michelin Pilot Alpin tires on another car and have liked them in wet conditions, but have no experience with them in snow/slush.

Like others have said, ditch the PZs and get something else. The MPS4S is a great choice, and performs much better than the PZs.

 

When i got my 812 it pulled to the left under acceleration, quick re-allignment and new tyres by Ferrari easily sorted this. Will be swapping to Michellins PS4 next

 

Did 10,000 miles on original PZ''s.
Agree that they can make car feel pretty scary when cold but I always enjoyed it.
I found the PZ's to be really good on track or when warm and really going for it.Far more grip than I have ability.
Swapped to MPS4S a few hundred miles ago and initial impression is that they are a much better choice for normal driving.Car feels smoother and more planted.Tramlining has been non-existent so far.
I will continue with MPS4S for as long as I have car.Cannot comment yet about performance when really pushing on yet but they certainly suit everyday driving much better.

 

I have exactly the same impression as @ajr550. I just switched two days ago from the Pirellis that were supplied with the car from new in 2019 and 5,100 miles ago to Michelin Pilot Sport 4S.

Having covered about 200 miles since the change, I believe that, for everyday driving, the MPS4S is so far a far better choice. They warm up at U.K. temperatures, generate grip, are significantly less glassy and brittle feeling when cold, and the tramlining previously experienced with the Pirellis on roads I drive frequently did not materialise with the new Michelins in Sunday. I was tough trying to warm up the Pirellis on colder days - even after fast motorways and A road driving.

The Pirellis may well have been stunning on track in summer heat and when using all the performance the car can offer. But on the road I found them detract from the enjoyment as they too often caused anxious moments for a split second here or there that dented confidence. Perhaps my skill levels were not up to the Pirellis.

The difference is not as day and night as it was when changing the Bridgestones on my Aston in Jan this year to MPS4S - that has really transformed that car. And the performance of the tyre in the wet (including on one of the wettest days I have sent a few months back that resulted in so much standing water - very impressive). Generated huge confidence the new tyres have.

The difference is not as stark in the 812, but each incremental improvement in all of the various relevant attributes adds up to a much better experience overall in all the things I can measure (feel) subjectively - perception of ride quality (less crashy) but not noticeable less detailed, more grip and traction at the temperatures generated by road driving (as opposed to all out track driving), no tramlining (so far) (on the same roads I frequently drive) - in particular heading east on the Great West Road as you pass the Porsche West London dealership in the third Lane, which used to be a proper wheel lurching moment on every pass - and overall more confidence generated by greater predictability in the way the tyre reacts. So far, all positive.

 

Although also discovered on Saturday (embarrassed for not noticing sooner) that my dealer previously fitted a rear Pirelli of older spec/tread pattern to the factory fit tyres when replaced due to slow puncture. Pretty shoddy.

So had one odd tyre before switching to the Michelins. Here are the odd Pirellis:
Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Interesting topic from another UK 812 owner. My take on the 812'a standard PZ are that they are lethal when cold. By this I mean complete lack of traction when the tyres are cold even on a nice warm day. When I take my 812 out of the garage the tyres are normally at 12C temps and they have pretty much zero traction. They improve a lot by the time they get up to 30C and IMO are actually a very good tyre in the summer heat after warming up.
However at all other times of the year during cooler temps they need to be switched to MP4Ss unless you live in a really cold climate when winter tyres would be even better. I will switch my PZs for MP4Ss this October at the same time as the 812's annual service is due.