why i dont like new ferraris

Well said.

A puzzling response, though, given I never claimed or proposed censorship. On the contrary, my post was in agreement with, well: You. (see below)

I think your response would have better context if directed at those that disagree with well: Us.

 

That's right, that's why you're not the target customer:

That was the point.

@willcrook , your position is Ferrari should not engage in HP wars. Hence, I made a sarcastic remark Ferrari should not go over 800hp, heck why even that high? Stay below 500 hp.

I believe not being competitive with the competition's horsepower offerings would detrimental to Ferrari.

You've made it abundantly clear you think quite the opposite.

As @Stams said, all opinions are valid, I couldn't agree more.

 

With the onslaught of electric, the horsepower wars may be a sideshow.

Yes, Ferrari should/will compete on straight line acceleration and top end, but it’s already getting crowded in the 0-60/3 seconds end of the market.


Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

At what point are we at fast enough? Sub 10 second 1/4 mile are common place now. Another 1/10th doesn't really matter. The overall package is what's appealing. The fast electric thing is just a novelty that quickly wears out. The Porsche GT cars are slow by today's standards and they still move the needle in a big way. This says a lot about what car people want.

 

What never changes is the limitations of us as humans as well as traffic and not knowing what’s around the next corner.

from what I understand America has more of a drag racing / straight line culture but from my perspective here in the uk a 458 spec is more than enough to go suicidally quick on the roads I like driving on.

Saying that I briefly drive a Chiron and it kind of threw that opinion out of the window and made me think a gt car on motorways which is super composed can make sense with 1000hp

 

The F12 is actually a hair narrower and only 5 inches longer than the Testarossa you posted though. But then again I thought the Testarossa was a pretty big car at the time so I guess everything is relative. I feel like Porsche has seen the largest increase in size. A new 911 is now an inch and a half shy of an F12.

 

Not so sure those numbers are accurate width at the rear I can see..length..I'll have to check. I still have the TR at in the shop..I'll measure it myself tomorrow. Will agree with how hefty the 911 has gotten. Kinda like the sf90 to a 308..

 

So good sir, please help me out, here.........................

I'm looking for a track car after realizing the 458 spider is simply a street car. Should I consider the 296 Challenge if I can get one? I don;\'t mind the wait and am more afraid of inheriting someone else's headache.

Honestly, there is nothing but slim pickings with the 458 C (my preferred). I have no idea about the 488 availability.

Maybe I should just purchase new and be done with it.

 

If you try and get a new Challenge car assuming you still can the wait will be forever. Best bet is to find a well documented 458C or 488C. Problem is that right now we are in season so people aren't selling their cars. The 458C can only be run in Club so you are more likely to find one of those. I can certainly let you know if I run across anything.

 

@wthensler -

Are you looking for another track car to compliment your STO?

 

Thanks, no hurry at all. Just putting out feelers at this point.

I don’t see tracking the STO on a regular basis, especially after witnessing the wear and tear on the 458. Just not worth it and I’m better off with a dedicated track machine (I don’t mind tracking the 458 but it’s got limitations).

But driver safety is the big one. While I have no doubt about its capabilities, the STO is lacking essential safety features of a dedicated track car. I don’t feel safe at 150+ coming into hard braking zones, or throttling up with tight walls on both sides. And……you can’t even get track insurance for these higher end exotics anymore.

 

As long as humans have been around, contests of speed have as well.

Bently's CEO said their next car could hit 0-60 in 1.5 seconds.

Even if it's just bragging rights, that's enough for folks with money to burn.

An SF90 can lap X track in Y time; you're not donning fireproof underwear every time you pull it out of the garage. Folks that have half a million to drop, knowing your car is 'fast' matters = regardless if you actually use it.

***

My point is Ferrari's brand ethos comes down to 'speed' and being the fastest in an NYSE: RACE. To reach 2,000 hp and beyond, electrification is the easiest way to do it. A stopwatch doesn't get affected by one's feelings, one's politics, sound, or environmental footprint.

I don't understand how some can argue to pivot from that mission statement. It's like saying Omega should start making plastic $260 watches.

Oh, wait.

 

Ferrari has never been the fastest and likely never will and that's not why people buy their cars.

 

Sure, they never were always the biggest house on the block; but they were always at least in the neighborhood.

see what happened when they were in another city? (Mondial 8, 348)

 

Nothing new here, just different wording.

Went to a Ferrari 75th anniversary celebration in NJ this past weekend.

The post 2015 Ferrari's are certainly amazing automotive accomplishments, however, the entire section of Ferraris from those years felt like very similar looking cars with different colors and levels of speed.

All the cars prior, each seemed to have it's own character and even the same models with different variations were more worth your time to explore what made them unique.

Overall feel was Ferrari made cars you used to dream to drive and now they make toys for the rich that are exquisite status symbols.

If I could have had the pick of the field to drive just to see what they are like, it would have been the F40, the F50, the Enzo, the TR, the Daytona, not the new ones.

The new ones just don't inspire in the same way.

That said I have no track experience whatsoever and I assume for that purpose these modern cars must be insane

 

The street cars really aren't good for anything more than a few laps as they come stock and too expensive to risk wrecking should you push.

 

Maybe, but these few laps may be enjoyable - it has some appeal to drive to a track in a comfortable road car and use the very same car as a real sports car, since the performance of current cars is unusable on the roads (for legitimate safety reasons as well as questionable legal reasons).

 

100%. Just makes more sense if you'd like to track more often.

 

My son has been a track guy for many years. All my fault as I bought him a 355 Challenge car in 09. He raced the Ferrari Cup Challenge series [older Challenge cars later named the CCR] and won the championship with the 355. Ultimately he upgraded to a 458 Challenge and won the series before the CCR ended.

Last year he sold the 458C and went with a Lambo Super Trofeo. In an event at Daytona the car got loose. He hit the wall, spun and the car caught fire....inside. They had to put out the fire and extract him from the car. His helmet hit the roll bar resulting in a concussion. He had a broken pelvis and knee damage. Recovery was many months. He is fine now.

However you can't take the racing blood out of a racer. He is seeking a 488 Challenge now. He feels the Ferrari is a better built and safer car than the Lambo. Not saying this should be advice. Just sharing what my racing son has experienced and thinks about safety.

 

The 488 challenge car is definitely safer, the car is designed to keep the occupants secure.

 

Wow, sorry to hear Steve, but glad he’s ok. I have no aspirations to race, certainly not at my age and late start at tracking. The main purpose of a jump to a challenge car (or any dedicated track car for that matter) would be safety. Standard seatbelts and airbags just don’t feel safe, even doing HPDE.

I can handle a 458 C. I’ve seen them run……They’re faster, geared differently, better suspension, lighter, blah blah blah….but not overwhelmingly so. Fast enough for me. A 488 takes considerably more skill, not sure I want or need to put myself in that position. But I’m sure there are better examples out there. Maybe I could ‘grow into it’ and live to talk about it…..

OTOH, it makes zero sense to track the STO (and even the 458 for that matter) on a regular basis. There is simply no good that can come out of it (well, perhaps lots of good until the fun suddenly stops). I’m having too many folks telling me I’m nuts. They have a valid point.

Anyhow, a very generous Fchatter has offered to show me many of these cars up close and personal, and I am seriously thinking to avail myself of this opportunity.

But overall, I really need to think about this one a bit. Thanks for your input, Steve.

 

To go 9/10s on a track, I want: (1) A full NASCAR cage, (2) HANS, (3) Six-point, not 5-point, harness, and (4) full fire suppression.

Image this: you spin 180, the guy behind you can't stop in time and T-bones you. Which one of the four items above would you want to skip?

Frankly, if you want to race, I mean, really race. It is hard to beat a SRF or a Spec Miata.

 

Agree 100%, safety is paramount on track.
I raced with an SRF for a season in SCCA. I totally agree, open top momentum car, sealed engine with only 105 hp. Good competition and it’s all about the driver, no nannies.
Image Unavailable, Please Login


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk