458 Ferrari 458 Trans gearbox DCT sensor issues fixed & info 11/2020

EZPerformance · May 10, 2022

Tarek307 said: ↑

Sorry this is long- If you have DCT trans sensor issues / Gear light on i suggest you read entire post!

Ok i will try to be as detailed as possible here as to help whoever searches for this issue. I just had the Gear light come on last month on my 458 and went through dealing with the Trans sensor issue & got it fixed.

First of all it is a MYTH that 2010-2011 458 are the ones with the DCT sensor issues, the issue is spread across the entire run 2010-2015 There are plenty of members here if you search with post 2011 that had issues.

I spoke about this in length with service managers and techs - So people spreading misinformation about extra trans coolers and this and that are WRONG! The issue doesn't effect every single car but as cars go up in miles and driven especially in hotter climates more and more are having this issue.

moving on...and now my story.

Intro
- Last month, was driving in my 2010 Italia with 35,000 miles, and all of a sudden i saw the red gear warning light, car was driving normal though, i turned car off, it went away, but then came back , it would drive normal but would hicuup and lose its even gears, and the hotter it got the more it would do it, sometimes reverse would be hard to get into...leave the car for a little bit, cools down, restart and no light no error, it would come after about driving 15-20 miles (So beware when buying a 458, inspect the car ONLY when its been driven some miles and trans got hot)

I scanned the car with a little $20 OBD sensor and had P1907 code which is a pressure sensor code..per ferrari bulletin pressure sensor is Level 2 fix..however since the speed sensor is known to go out, i decided i should do the speed sensor as well as pressure & temp sensors.

Research
I did tons of research on this issue, of course there is a lot of wrong info, and people saying you need a new gearbox, oh its $20,000 its $30,000 blah blah blah, i called every dealer in my area, called a few outside the area called some independent shops and learned as much as possible about the issue...

During one of my google searches Ferrari of San Diego Gear Box replacement form came up..and peaked my interest, i'm in Los Angeles, Long Beach so SD is about an hour and a half from me..i figured give them a call , i did and i spoke with Dale Gagner who is a service manager there, Dale was also a tech there for over 15 years, a transmission specialist for their Challenge Team, i knew this was my guy..being that Ferrari SD have a challenge team that service the challenge cars and fly all over the country with the team they have access to spare parts & information other dealers may not..I had gotten some help at Ferrari of newport, they actually scanned my car and gave me the proper ferrari codes so Dale was able to look them up in the Ferrari system (once your car is scanned at an F car dealer its in their entire network)

Diagnosis
Dale was able to confirm its going to be the pressure sensor but advised on doing all sensors while in there, other dealers and shops i talked to said the same thing but said i would need to buy an entire new SAP OR CCP whatever the thing is that carries the sensors...but ferrari of SD since they have a challenge team are able to get individual sensors. The speed sensor kit is the only one that is expensive about $3800 from dealer however you can get it for $1150 from Scuderia parts and maybe convince the dealer to use it since its an oem part , some dealers will agree some wont- I was able to do this and still maintain the 2 year labor warranty on the work they were about to do (but if the sensor itself went bad of course i'd have to buy another sensor myself but they would cover the labor)
the quote for labor will be anywhere from $7-$9K depending on what needs to be done

In for operation
My speed sensor kit from Scuderia parts arrived to my house then I drove the 1.5 hrs to Ferrari of SD and dropped off the car and the sensor kit, Dale and his team were great and showed me around the dealership, and showed me an open split 458 trans they were working on from a 2013 and went over it with me explaining what issues occur and how they fix them..They also had a couple of crates with transmissions from other DCT sensor victims such as myself sent to them from other states to work on.

They started work on my car rite away, i was still skeptical not sure if i will really get this entire issue solved for under $10k ...within a week they were done, i went and picked up the car today and its all ok, speed sensor, pressure sensor & temp sensor done i ended up spending well under $9k including the speed sensor kit ( i won't say exact number because as people with a brain know every situation could be different) They of course also change all the fluids and clean anything out that needs cleaning, and they install and wire the sensors in a better fashion with better clamps or whatever than they came with originally.

PS: I also had them lower the car on Novitec springs & add 11mm-15mm spacers while it was being worked on.

Conclusion
-If you get the gear box light, and its the dreaded DCT sensor don't freak out, you won't need to go get a new gearbox or spend $20-$30k
-458's all years 2010-2015 can have this issue, so if you are buying one, budget for it, its not a "huge deal" in the big picture , and its about the only main issue 458 suffer from.
-Do your research & find a proper dealer that is very familiar with this issue and better yet find a dealer that has their own Ferrari challenge team.

Big thanks for Ferrari of San Diego, Dale Gagner, Nik Dwyer, Chuck the great tech who went over the car with me, and also Sebastian Vollaerts at Newport Ferrari for giving me tons of info / advise & pulling the Ferrari codes for me.

Sorry for any spelling errors or grammar mistakes, i just hope this experience can benefit future members searching.

Below are some pics of the gearbox when it was in surgery.
View attachment 3043503 View attachment 3043505 View attachment 3043506 View attachment 3043507
Click to expand...

I normally charge 10 but I do both pressure sensors and the speed sensor and then redo all the zip ties. Unfortunately I wouldn’t be able to help you unless you want to drive to St. Louis
View attachment 2537349 View attachment 2841721 View attachment 2955592 View attachment 2569637 View attachment 2957137 View attachment 2918069

FF40Man · May 19, 2022

EZPerformance said: ↑

I normally charge 10 but I do both pressure sensors and the speed sensor and then redo all the zip ties. Unfortunately I wouldn’t be able to help you unless you want to drive to St. Louis
View attachment 2537349 View attachment 2841721 View attachment 2955592 View attachment 2569637 View attachment 2957137 View attachment 2918069
Click to expand...

HELP ME WITH THIS ONE MR. DCT man!
We want answers, we want the truth!

If I read this thread right.....only thing we need on this thread next are the pics of the before and after of the wiring/harness/clips, and how they are routed before and after.
Can you provide this info sir?

EZPerformance · May 20, 2022

FF40Man said: ↑

HELP ME WITH THIS ONE MR. DCT man!
We want answers, we want the truth!

If I read this thread right.....only thing we need on this thread next are the pics of the before and after of the wiring/harness/clips, and how they are routed before and after.
Can you provide this info sir?
Click to expand...

I can do my best, this seven speed Getrag has three common failure points, one of those being the zip tie locations on the harness. They were installed in a way that made the wires too tight and over time with all the drastic temp changes they endure, they will end up getting brittle and break or build up so much resistance that the part that they’re feeding ends up failing do to lack of voltage. The other failures common to this gearbox are the pressure sensors attached to the CCP’s electro hydraulic unit. There are two 40 bar sensors and one 60 bar sensor. The 60 bar has been the culprit in two of my rebuilds and I’ll leave it up to the customer whether or not to replace the others while we’re there which Ferrari owners will do but if it’s a car from a dealer or wholesaler, it’s difficult in persuading them to cut into what’s left of their profit margin when they just want the car done and sold. The last common failure is the most labor intensive and that is the speed sensor, you have to pull 90% of the gearbox apart to get to it which involves splitting open the other half of the gearbox. When I did my first one there wasn’t any info available on how to do it, no videos online either because nobody wanted to attempt it. You have to get a little violent to open it and you have bearings pressed into cases and pressed on shafts, you need to separate all of it without cracking the housing because you can’t buy just the housing to replace it, you’d have to buy the whole unit. There are also gears and synchronizers that are randomly pressed in or held in by hidden c clips that you need to remove to get the cases split. They have to be removed and installed in a specific order and have to be in a specific location or they will cause issues in performance. If you press one gear in too tight and another not pressed in far enough it may cause harsh shifts or worse no shifts. It’s a very difficult build if you had all the info but it wasn’t available so I did as much measuring and pre torquing that I could before pulling it apart. It’s a very tedious and difficult job not for the faint of heart because if you break anything you have to buy a whole transmission, and the parts you need come in full kits so you’ll have a lot of leftover parts and then you have to build your own tools to pull apart the gearbox. They didn’t have these tools when I first did it now I think you can buy them for $15,000. If you can complete all of that without any issues you’re doing great but now you have to teach the gearbox to work properly so you’ll need the right diag software and yet one last speed bump in this journey is the EPB relearn. It doesn’t matter if you have a 458 with 10,000 miles on it or a California with 150,000 miles on it the parking brake will either go through the learning process easily or it won’t and you have to replace that as well. I’m not at all trying to scare anyone or exaggerate if you’ve got the time, background in machining, engineering, mechanics and electronics and your OCD like I am, then you have an advantage, but if that sounds like something you don’t wanna deal with go ahead message me if you’re not in my area I’ll find somebody who is in yours. Good luck gentleman
[email protected]

sampelligrino · May 20, 2022

Thanks for your venture down the rabbit hole and glad more shops are investigating fixes

Many of us are holding onto our pre-hybrid Ferraris that are getting older and older

FF40Man · May 22, 2022

EZPerformance said: ↑

I can do my best, this seven speed Getrag has three common failure points, one of those being the zip tie locations on the harness. They were installed in a way that made the wires too tight and over time with all the drastic temp changes they endure, they will end up getting brittle and break or build up so much resistance that the part that they’re feeding ends up failing do to lack of voltage. The other failures common to this gearbox are the pressure sensors attached to the CCP’s electro hydraulic unit. There are two 40 bar sensors and one 60 bar sensor. The 60 bar has been the culprit in two of my rebuilds and I’ll leave it up to the customer whether or not to replace the others while we’re there which Ferrari owners will do but if it’s a car from a dealer or wholesaler, it’s difficult in persuading them to cut into what’s left of their profit margin when they just want the car done and sold. The last common failure is the most labor intensive and that is the speed sensor, you have to pull 90% of the gearbox apart to get to it which involves splitting open the other half of the gearbox. When I did my first one there wasn’t any info available on how to do it, no videos online either because nobody wanted to attempt it. You have to get a little violent to open it and you have bearings pressed into cases and pressed on shafts, you need to separate all of it without cracking the housing because you can’t buy just the housing to replace it, you’d have to buy the whole unit. There are also gears and synchronizers that are randomly pressed in or held in by hidden c clips that you need to remove to get the cases split. They have to be removed and installed in a specific order and have to be in a specific location or they will cause issues in performance. If you press one gear in too tight and another not pressed in far enough it may cause harsh shifts or worse no shifts. It’s a very difficult build if you had all the info but it wasn’t available so I did as much measuring and pre torquing that I could before pulling it apart. It’s a very tedious and difficult job not for the faint of heart because if you break anything you have to buy a whole transmission, and the parts you need come in full kits so you’ll have a lot of leftover parts and then you have to build your own tools to pull apart the gearbox. They didn’t have these tools when I first did it now I think you can buy them for $15,000. If you can complete all of that without any issues you’re doing great but now you have to teach the gearbox to work properly so you’ll need the right diag software and yet one last speed bump in this journey is the EPB relearn. It doesn’t matter if you have a 458 with 10,000 miles on it or a California with 150,000 miles on it the parking brake will either go through the learning process easily or it won’t and you have to replace that as well. I’m not at all trying to scare anyone or exaggerate if you’ve got the time, background in machining, engineering, mechanics and electronics and your OCD like I am, then you have an advantage, but if that sounds like something you don’t wanna deal with go ahead message me if you’re not in my area I’ll find somebody who is in yours. Good luck gentleman
[email protected]
Click to expand...

Thank you very much Eric!!!

FF40Man · May 22, 2022

EZPerformance said: ↑

I can do my best, this seven speed Getrag has three common failure points, one of those being the zip tie locations on the harness. They were installed in a way that made the wires too tight and over time with all the drastic temp changes they endure, they will end up getting brittle and break or build up so much resistance that the part that they’re feeding ends up failing do to lack of voltage. The other failures common to this gearbox are the pressure sensors attached to the CCP’s electro hydraulic unit. There are two 40 bar sensors and one 60 bar sensor. The 60 bar has been the culprit in two of my rebuilds and I’ll leave it up to the customer whether or not to replace the others while we’re there which Ferrari owners will do but if it’s a car from a dealer or wholesaler, it’s difficult in persuading them to cut into what’s left of their profit margin when they just want the car done and sold. The last common failure is the most labor intensive and that is the speed sensor, you have to pull 90% of the gearbox apart to get to it which involves splitting open the other half of the gearbox. When I did my first one there wasn’t any info available on how to do it, no videos online either because nobody wanted to attempt it. You have to get a little violent to open it and you have bearings pressed into cases and pressed on shafts, you need to separate all of it without cracking the housing because you can’t buy just the housing to replace it, you’d have to buy the whole unit. There are also gears and synchronizers that are randomly pressed in or held in by hidden c clips that you need to remove to get the cases split. They have to be removed and installed in a specific order and have to be in a specific location or they will cause issues in performance. If you press one gear in too tight and another not pressed in far enough it may cause harsh shifts or worse no shifts. It’s a very difficult build if you had all the info but it wasn’t available so I did as much measuring and pre torquing that I could before pulling it apart. It’s a very tedious and difficult job not for the faint of heart because if you break anything you have to buy a whole transmission, and the parts you need come in full kits so you’ll have a lot of leftover parts and then you have to build your own tools to pull apart the gearbox. They didn’t have these tools when I first did it now I think you can buy them for $15,000. If you can complete all of that without any issues you’re doing great but now you have to teach the gearbox to work properly so you’ll need the right diag software and yet one last speed bump in this journey is the EPB relearn. It doesn’t matter if you have a 458 with 10,000 miles on it or a California with 150,000 miles on it the parking brake will either go through the learning process easily or it won’t and you have to replace that as well. I’m not at all trying to scare anyone or exaggerate if you’ve got the time, background in machining, engineering, mechanics and electronics and your OCD like I am, then you have an advantage, but if that sounds like something you don’t wanna deal with go ahead message me if you’re not in my area I’ll find somebody who is in yours. Good luck gentleman
[email protected]
Click to expand...

Thank you Eric.

1. Are the pressure and speed sensors really failing or is it really all related to the wiring/harness/clips?

2. Were the sensors updated with a perm fix? Sounds like the wiring/harness/clips have a perm fix in place now, and those that had multiple failures happened before this knowledge.

FF40Man · Jun 12, 2022

Ferrari changed the specs of how the wiring harness is routed to eliminate the pressure points of the wiring that caused the sensors to fail. This appears to be the perm fix.

oldman1982 · Jul 31, 2022

jk356 said: ↑

is there any evidence that changing the DCT fluid on a regular basis will prevent degradation of the wires /zip ties? I.e., will changing the dct fluid prevent or decrease the likelihood of needing the sensor or wiring harness failure?
Click to expand...

i wannt to know this as well. somebody can answer ?

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app

wthensler · Jul 31, 2022

oldman1982 said: ↑

i wannt to know this as well. somebody can answer ?
Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Click to expand...

I don’t think there is nearly enough data out there. I replaced my 2013 458 Spider DCT and gear oil last month and published the results of the analysis by Blackstone here on Fchat.

Essentially, after 35,000 miles and numerous track days, the fluid analysis came back pristine by every measurable parameter. And I’m the 3rd or 4th owner and have no idea how how the car was driven before I got it.

Based solely on these results. I’d have to say there is no evidence a more frequent change schedule reduces failure potential.

And being an outlier with regard to aggressive service (I’m at the high end), there does not appear to be any correlation to severity of use. In fact, you’re probably better off driving it hard.

So………there you go, one person’s experience.

oldman1982 · Jul 31, 2022

wthensler said: ↑

I don’t think there is nearly enough data out there. I replaced my 2013 458 Spider DCT and gear oil last month and published the results of the analysis by Blackstone here on Fchat.

Essentially, after 35,000 miles and numerous track days, the fluid analysis came back pristine by every measurable parameter. And I’m the 3rd or 4th owner and have no idea how how the car was driven before I got it.

Based solely on these results. I’d have to say there is no evidence a more frequent change schedule reduces failure potential.

And being an outlier with regard to aggressive service (I’m at the high end), there does not appear to be any correlation to severity of use. In fact, you’re probably better off driving it hard.

So………there you go, one person’s experience.
Click to expand...

thank you wthensler, i too in a verge of buying the power warranty for my 10 cali w 8k miles. or just self insured. the price of a year warranty is almost the same as replacing the speed sensor. power warranty only 5k-6k here in my country. the thing is i lost my original exhaust (previous owner replace it with fi exhaust setup). i need to buy the OEM exhaust if i want to go with the warranty. it's hard to find one here.

D-Gunz · Jun 6, 2024

up4speed said: ↑

Thanks for the write up! I'm wondering if it's worth spending $9k on repairing the old box. Because then you will have a tampered with, old transmission with new sensors. It sounds like for a little more than double you can have a, non tampered with BRAND NEW transmission with all new components and sensors. If and when this happens to me, I'm not sure that the decision will be so easy for me.
Click to expand...

I got quoted $24k to rebuild the "entire" transmission (all sensors) + all seals. Hollywood mechanic told me every transmission will eventually fail due to TIME vs mileage; they said all the seals fail which affect the heat issue and sensors issue. He said even a "rebuild" would only be good for 10 years before it would have to be re-done again for all F-car with Getrag from 2009-2017. The 2018+ have a newer 8 speed transmission from what i read.

D-Gunz · Jun 7, 2024

Tarek307 said: ↑

Sorry this is long- If you have DCT trans sensor issues / Gear light on i suggest you read entire post!

Ok i will try to be as detailed as possible here as to help whoever searches for this issue. I just had the Gear light come on last month on my 458 and went through dealing with the Trans sensor issue & got it fixed.

First of all it is a MYTH that 2010-2011 458 are the ones with the DCT sensor issues, the issue is spread across the entire run 2010-2015 There are plenty of members here if you search with post 2011 that had issues.

I spoke about this in length with service managers and techs - So people spreading misinformation about extra trans coolers and this and that are WRONG! The issue doesn't effect every single car but as cars go up in miles and driven especially in hotter climates more and more are having this issue.

moving on...and now my story.

Intro
- Last month, was driving in my 2010 Italia with 35,000 miles, and all of a sudden i saw the red gear warning light, car was driving normal though, i turned car off, it went away, but then came back , it would drive normal but would hicuup and lose its even gears, and the hotter it got the more it would do it, sometimes reverse would be hard to get into...leave the car for a little bit, cools down, restart and no light no error, it would come after about driving 15-20 miles (So beware when buying a 458, inspect the car ONLY when its been driven some miles and trans got hot)

I scanned the car with a little $20 OBD sensor and had P1907 code which is a pressure sensor code..per ferrari bulletin pressure sensor is Level 2 fix..however since the speed sensor is known to go out, i decided i should do the speed sensor as well as pressure & temp sensors.

Research
I did tons of research on this issue, of course there is a lot of wrong info, and people saying you need a new gearbox, oh its $20,000 its $30,000 blah blah blah, i called every dealer in my area, called a few outside the area called some independent shops and learned as much as possible about the issue...

During one of my google searches Ferrari of San Diego Gear Box replacement form came up..and peaked my interest, i'm in Los Angeles, Long Beach so SD is about an hour and a half from me..i figured give them a call , i did and i spoke with Dale Gagner who is a service manager there, Dale was also a tech there for over 15 years, a transmission specialist for their Challenge Team, i knew this was my guy..being that Ferrari SD have a challenge team that service the challenge cars and fly all over the country with the team they have access to spare parts & information other dealers may not..I had gotten some help at Ferrari of newport, they actually scanned my car and gave me the proper ferrari codes so Dale was able to look them up in the Ferrari system (once your car is scanned at an F car dealer its in their entire network)

Diagnosis
Dale was able to confirm its going to be the pressure sensor but advised on doing all sensors while in there, other dealers and shops i talked to said the same thing but said i would need to buy an entire new SAP OR CCP whatever the thing is that carries the sensors...but ferrari of SD since they have a challenge team are able to get individual sensors. The speed sensor kit is the only one that is expensive about $3800 from dealer however you can get it for $1150 from Scuderia parts and maybe convince the dealer to use it since its an oem part , some dealers will agree some wont- I was able to do this and still maintain the 2 year labor warranty on the work they were about to do (but if the sensor itself went bad of course i'd have to buy another sensor myself but they would cover the labor)
the quote for labor will be anywhere from $7-$9K depending on what needs to be done

In for operation
My speed sensor kit from Scuderia parts arrived to my house then I drove the 1.5 hrs to Ferrari of SD and dropped off the car and the sensor kit, Dale and his team were great and showed me around the dealership, and showed me an open split 458 trans they were working on from a 2013 and went over it with me explaining what issues occur and how they fix them..They also had a couple of crates with transmissions from other DCT sensor victims such as myself sent to them from other states to work on.

They started work on my car rite away, i was still skeptical not sure if i will really get this entire issue solved for under $10k ...within a week they were done, i went and picked up the car today and its all ok, speed sensor, pressure sensor & temp sensor done i ended up spending well under $9k including the speed sensor kit ( i won't say exact number because as people with a brain know every situation could be different) They of course also change all the fluids and clean anything out that needs cleaning, and they install and wire the sensors in a better fashion with better clamps or whatever than they came with originally.

PS: I also had them lower the car on Novitec springs & add 11mm-15mm spacers while it was being worked on.

Conclusion
-If you get the gear box light, and its the dreaded DCT sensor don't freak out, you won't need to go get a new gearbox or spend $20-$30k
-458's all years 2010-2015 can have this issue, so if you are buying one, budget for it, its not a "huge deal" in the big picture , and its about the only main issue 458 suffer from.
-Do your research & find a proper dealer that is very familiar with this issue and better yet find a dealer that has their own Ferrari challenge team.

Big thanks for Ferrari of San Diego, Dale Gagner, Nik Dwyer, Chuck the great tech who went over the car with me, and also Sebastian Vollaerts at Newport Ferrari for giving me tons of info / advise & pulling the Ferrari codes for me.

Sorry for any spelling errors or grammar mistakes, i just hope this experience can benefit future members searching.

Below are some pics of the gearbox when it was in surgery.
View attachment 3043503 View attachment 3043505 View attachment 3043506 View attachment 3043507
Click to expand...

Hello! do you have an update for us? Did the problem never come back? How many miles have you driven since all 3 sensors were replaced? I just got the RED BOX today light up so i'm seeing Dale next week. Ive had my 2011 Cali for 3yr and did 29,000 miles prior to failure (car now has 49k miles). thx!

Tarek307 · Jun 7, 2024

D-Gunz said: ↑

Hello! do you have an update for us? Did the problem never come back? How many miles have you driven since all 3 sensors were replaced? I just got the RED BOX today light up so i'm seeing Dale next week. Ive had my 2011 Cali for 3yr and did 29,000 miles prior to failure (car now has 49k miles). thx!
Click to expand...

Problem never came back, i sold that car in 2021 and put around 4K more miles on it since the Trans issue (and now have another 458) i'm in touch with the owner of the car in the thread, and he's put close to another 10K miles on it and no issues.

D-Gunz · Jun 7, 2024

Tarek307 said: ↑

Problem never came back, i sold that car in 2021 and put around 4K more miles on it since the Trans issue (and now have another 458) i'm in touch with the owner of the car in the thread, and he's put close to another 10K miles on it and no issues.
Click to expand...

awesome! that's the kind of news I need to hear before I dump at another $10k+ to fix the tranny....

D-Gunz · Jun 8, 2024

Akajak1 said: ↑

As discussed could be a new gearbox, or a fix of the existing unit depending on the fault.
Some F dealerships and some indies can open the gearbox and repair, but in some circumstances a new box is required.
Typically you lose either all odd or all even gears so yours might be something simpler , hopefully.
Keep us posted.

Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Click to expand...

when you loose all "even" gears - what is the root cause? That just happened to met yesterday! I have 6 error codes; doing live diagnostics tomorrow for parameters reading

mikey64 · Jun 8, 2024

D-Gunz said: ↑

when you loose all "even" gears - what is the root cause? That just happened to met yesterday! I have 6 error codes; doing live diagnostics tomorrow for parameters reading
Click to expand...

Read my experience and write up before you spend a dime!

DCT error light illuminated
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/index.php?threads/DCT-error-light-illuminated.690643/

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458 Ferrari 458 Trans gearbox DCT sensor issues fixed & info 11/2020

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