F430 vs California | FerrariChat

F430 vs California

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by LoveChesed, May 30, 2022.

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  1. LoveChesed

    LoveChesed Rookie

    Dec 31, 2021
    39
    Full Name:
    Keith
    Hi everyone. Long time lurker and rare poster. I posted a while ago I was looking at 430 vs 458 not sure how serious I was but looking into it. A friend has a 458 and maybe a 360. He told me he drives about 500 miles per year and spends around 10k per year on the cars. I’ve been reading that they are reliable as long as you do regular maintenance but things break and expect to spend several thousands annually, more if you drive more.

    I stopped driving German cars because of the amount of money I was spending in repairs and I know this will drive me nuts. So I stopped looking seriously at Ferrari. And started looking at Porsche. Which I am finally accepting will have maybe slightly less but nonetheless similar maintenance and repair costs.

    which will drive me nuts. So no Porsche.

    which now brings me to think about the Ferrari California. Everyone seems to feel it is not a “real” Ferrari and the 430 and 458 are incalculably more fun. But if the California is a legitimately reliable car with less maintenance fees I’d consider it.

    wondering everyone’s thoughts. Thank you!
    Keith
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    Jimmie
  3. mx1

    mx1 Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 16, 2022
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    CT
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    Danny
    I went to the dealer near me and checked one out- they are comfy but the back seats are kinda unrealistic and pointless to me unless you put a small kid back there. About the only thing though I didn’t really like was the design of the back of the car. But that said, 100% I would go for the 458 if you can
     
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  4. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    Honestly, this hobby,lifestyle, torture device (pick one) isn't for everybody. If you can't stand for maintaining a 911, which is the most reliable supercar (Turbo or GT3) out there the other suggestions I would be inclined to make (R8, NSX) wouldn't work either.

    So maybe a Corvette or a Mustang GT500 would be a good fit......or if you have the bones, a '05-'06 Ford GT is dead nuts reliable. I have one, and they are sensational. Best American car of the first 100 years of the auto industry.
     
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  5. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,212
    Santa Clarita, CA
    I have a 2009 F430 with 14,000 miles on it now. I’ve had it over 2 years and it had 12,000 on it when I bought it. I learned to do the maintenance myself.

    Engine oil changes- $100
    Gearbox oil change- $70
    Brake fluid flush-$60 in fluid and $100 for the pressure bleeder, which I’ll have forever and use on my other cars.
    F1 fluid flush-$40 in fluid and $700 for the Launch X431.
    The antifreeze was just done before I bought the car, so that is due soon-$50 in antifreeze, and a vacuum device ($75) which I’ll have forever and will use on my other cars.
    New battery-$170 and took me 1/2 hour to replace it.

    Nothing has broken or needed replacing and the car has been 100% reliable.

    Don’t believe everything you read or hear.


    Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  6. LoveChesed

    LoveChesed Rookie

    Dec 31, 2021
    39
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    Keith
    It’s funny I went to the California section and only found posts about specific detailed issues not general “how is it?” Stuff. Thank you!
     
  7. Ffre92

    Ffre92 Formula Junior

    May 26, 2014
    595
    NY
    I don’t quite understand what’s changed since your last thread. I don’t think anyone will ever say any Ferrari is “legitimately reliable.”

    If that is your primary concern f-car ownership is not for you. You have to think of Ferrari ownership as an enthusiast pasttime or hobby, rather than high-end transportation, which is the way you’re approaching it.
     
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  8. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    This. I’ve had both Ferrari and Porsche, and they’re both expensive. If you want a great European sports car, but can’t stand maintenance/repair costs, a 911 coupe is probably the least hassle. I haven’t owned an F430 so will defer to those who have, but it has a decent reputation. I considered a California T, but ultimately it’s a complicated car and the potential for five figure bills made me think twice.

    If it’s a hobby car, consider classics. My 328 was reliable and relatively affordable apart from the regular timing belt/major service. My current fun car is a Porsche 964, which is dependable and a great drive, but it’s 29 years old so needs the occasional replacement part due to age — just did the sunroof seal, for example, which was $700 parts/labor.

    Or if you need new and want zero service costs, Shark01 offers good advice above.

    But… I personally get huge satisfaction maintaining and driving ‘80s and ‘90s sports cars. Loud, analog, and pretty simple. I could drive the 964 cross country tomorrow and wouldn’t worry.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
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  9. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    The problem with the California is the name. Many of us old farts got pissed off when Ferrari took the name of what many of us consider the most beautiful sports car ever made, the California Spyder, and used it on a new car. Ferrari fixed this when they changed the name to Portafino, but that was too late.

    From what I've heard, the California/Portafino is maybe the most reliable car Ferrari has ever built. For starters, it has a dual clutch transmission instead of a F1 shifter.
     
  10. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,687
    And the early ones have a horrific reputation for 5 figure failures.
     
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  11. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    I didn't know that.
     
  12. LoveChesed

    LoveChesed Rookie

    Dec 31, 2021
    39
    Full Name:
    Keith
    Hi.
    My thought process after researching was "458 convertible." Then I saw the prices and didn't feel comfortable driving that expensive of a car. I know me and I'm looking for a daily driver and if (when knowing me) I scratched it, it would drive me out of my mind. Ergo 430 convertible. But I spoke with a friend who has I think a 458 and 360 and looked up the reliability and yearly costs and while the car seems reliable in terms of unexpected breakdowns the maintenance was insane. He said he spends about $10K per year. So I gave up on Ferrari. Looked at Porsche. Same issue in terms of repairs. Longingly went back looking at Ferrari knowing it was not reasonable for my desires (convertible, sane maintenance costs, say around 1K or so per year). Previously I was aware of the California but at that time that it was not a "real" F-car and people who buy it immediately begin looking at F430 and F458. So previously I thought just buy what you want not what will keep you unsatisfied. But because of the extensive maintenance costs I gave up on those ... but am now thinking maybe if the California maintenance costs aren't so huge maybe a not-fully-satisfying California that doesn't drive me nuts on maintenance costs might be a good choice. Better choice for me than a fully satisfying F430 that costs $5K per year to keep on the road.

    That is what changed in answer to your question.
     
  13. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 8, 2005
    72,512
    Las Vegas Nevada
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    Jerry
    Used my Cali as daily driver for four years. Not a single issue. Amazing car and yes, its a Ferrari
     
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  14. vjd3

    vjd3 F1 Rookie
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    Jun 3, 2005
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    2013 Cali 30, 3 years, 15k miles (20k on the car), only problem was a convertible top sensor under warranty.

    2015 Cali T, going on 3 years, 13k miles (23k total), zero issues.

    Drive it regularly, it will be fine. Avoid cars that are very low mileage. 458 Spiders are almost twice as expensive. Get the factory $5k warranty the first year if it gives you peace of mind but it doesn’t cover everything. If you buy from a Ferrari dealer, negotiate it into the deal — try for 2 years — but I never used it.
     
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  15. LoveChesed

    LoveChesed Rookie

    Dec 31, 2021
    39
    Full Name:
    Keith
    Awesome. Stuff like this is EXACTLY what I'm looking for. Ideally I'd go for F430 convertible (spyder OK) but the maintenance and repairs will make me so angry I'll regret buying it. I'm looking for something that looks cool and unique, drives well, convertible of course in SoCal, and maintenance will not drive me bonkers. It sounds like although I'd prefer to drive the F430 it will drive me nuts so California is a good compromise.
     
  16. LoveChesed

    LoveChesed Rookie

    Dec 31, 2021
    39
    Full Name:
    Keith
    OK One more question - and I know in advance this is the wrong place for it so I apologize ... does anyone have experience with Aston Martin? Do people find their convertibles either more fun or more reliable than the California? I think I've decided the 430 and 458 maintenance will really make me angry and it looks like the CA may be reasonable maintenance. Anyone have experience with Aston Martin? Thank you!
     
  17. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 1, 2012
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    Glen
    Can't speak for everyone but my 430 (mt) has been solid reliable for 7 years now. I do engine oil/gearbox oil and filters myself. It goes to our Ferrari dealership once every 3 years for all the other stuff. I would say, averaged out, maint/repair costs have been less than 1K per year. Biggest service bill was 2K which included a ball joint. Insurance costs me more on average. Trick is to get a well maintained good one. Folks with good ones tend to stay quiet and smile. Those who bought a bad one tend to shout from the rooftops.
     
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  18. Doug.

    Doug. F1 Rookie
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    Apr 16, 2004
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  19. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
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    Jon
    I would conclude the opposite. 458 and F430 would be my preference.

    Aston Martin depreciation is dizzying, so maybe post in the General discussion and definitely buy used if you go that route. But they are pretty sedate compared to a Ferrari or Porsche.



    Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  20. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
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    'long time lurker'...??? you have been on here all of 6 months.....

    if maintenance costs are an issue for you, then you might be looking at the wrong marque.
    otherwise, i search through the 15 years worth of posts on 430;s and 10 years worth on cali's
     
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  21. vjd3

    vjd3 F1 Rookie
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    Jun 3, 2005
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    I think the F430 is also a reliable car — that was my first F-car. As with Porsches, each model tends to have its weak points. Early Californias are prone to problems with the transmission— a speed sensor buried inside that requires disassembly to replace — and the folding hardtop is a complicated mechanism. F430s are prone to cracked headers and the F1 transmission is finicky, can go through clutches rapidly if not maintained and driven correctly, and it is somewhat primitive compared to the DCT that replaced it, though it is still super fun to drive.

    I am a firm believer that driving the car regularly will keep it healthy and happy. The California is more comfortable to drive daily, it is not as low slung, attracts less attention and, to me, is fine for running errands as well as long trips. I found the F430 to be more of an event to drive, or more of a point A to point A car, if you will. I would never have put as many miles on the F430 as I do on the Cali. But people daily drive F430s happily, and the 458 is more comfortable to drive than the F430 — albeit at twice the price. I daily drove 911s for 30 years. The Cali T is a great daily driver.

    The most important thing to keep in mind is a Ferrari is expensive, parts are expensive, labor is expensive. If an unexpected $10k repair would be a financial disaster, it’s probably not the car for you. Put it this way, after owning a Ferrari, you will fear no Porsche repairs ;)

    My Cali T came with 2 years of factory warranty. I had zero repairs. I would have had to pay $5500 to reup the warranty last June. I chose to go without and had zero issues the last 12 months … so in my mind I am halfway ahead if I get the $10k bill.
     
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  22. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    75,396
    Texas!
    There are two ways to fly when owning a Ferrari. You can be like @fatbillybob and do a deep dive and fix everything yourself. If you're smart enough to earn the money to buy a Ferrari, you're smart enough to learn how to repair it. Or, you can find a good mechanic and take the car to him and say, "Fix it." Ferraris are still very-low production cars. They are not ready for prime time. They are not a mass consumer product, but they are a hoot to drive. You have to decided whether the cost in time or money is worth it.
     
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  23. ScottS

    ScottS F1 Rookie
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    The myth of the cost is probably not reality.


    Had a 430 - never had a problem. Variators cost me a bit near the end (about 10K all in ). But owned for ten years average 1500 per year all in.

    Had a California. Drove it to work. Small kids fit in back and made it useable. For a while.

    Never had a problem with the Cali either although there are problem spots. Roof and transmission potentially.

    I will say I came to Ferrari from
    Porsche I was scared. Nothing to worry about if you buy right get a ppi and drive the cars. Oh yeah regular maintenance.


    And if you want to hedge- search for warranty threads and buy through a dealer and get a warranty. To protect against most large ticket items - not all.

    Listen. All of these toys have risk. Mitigate as possible. I understand your fear. Stories about 20k bills for repair and other amounts would have scared me away from ownership if I were smarter. Fortunately I haven’t had those bills.

    Good luck. Come back participate and see how we all love the brand, our cars, and the community here.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  24. The4DA

    The4DA Karting

    Aug 31, 2018
    138
    GA
    Full Name:
    RC
    Haha. This did make me LOL a little bit. I definitely feel different about my 997 repairs/maintenance now after owning my F430. The fears of cost definitely have changed and I have a "car repair fund" that waits for the "Uh Ohs".


    I agree with a lot of the comments here as well. After owning my 997.1 C2S almost 10 years and my F430 for almost four years, there's just a potential cost associated with these kinds of cars you have to be prepared to pay. Doesn't mean you will, but should be understand is out there. With that being said, some cars are going to have problems and some will be run w/o a peep. I've driven 12k miles on my F430 F1 and it's been solid (9.2k when bought, 21k now) and it has been great. I usually drive my F430 once a week right now. Rarely go more than 2 weeks w/o driving it. Only real issue I have had since owning it is an oil leak (timing cover) I'm having that taken care of right now. I know prior to my ownership the car has some pricey repairs, but a lot of that was due to the owners just sitting the car for LONG periods of time. At least according to the shop that worked on it previously. That seems to hurt these cars, just like Porsches, etc. Drive them often and they seem to run "fairly" trouble free.

    Good luck!
     
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  25. sinistermist

    sinistermist Karting

    Mar 23, 2016
    101
    Op has no business being near an aston martin or ferrari. It does not matter if it is the most reliable version. If it breaks it is expensive to fix. If you want cheap go buy a Fiat.
     
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