Hello all, I am french so please excuse me for some english spelling mistakes I could have done I have a 2006 F430 Spyder. 2 years ago, the actuator was leaking oil so I sent it for a rebuild to M.Sherkan at GTA engenering. It came back , got it installed but had issues with it, it was now going in neutral for nothing at any gear. The situation :It was badly alligned so my mecanic got the alingment tool needed and installed it properly. It was OK for following summer ( last year) but it did it still did it twice in the whole summer so I did not think it was an issue but just a F430 glitch.. Now this year, it is doing it all 3 times I drove the car so far. The issue: I drive the car that is perfect with no problem. After 20 minutes of driving, when I go up to 4th gear and ****f down, or slow down in third gear...It 'jams' ( stays at the same RPM) for a moment and them goes on neutral. If the car is still running on the road, it will go back on a gear if I continue to play like crazy with the paddles shifter. This happenned only twice while it was driving on an highway. But it does it again when i got out and the next stop. Usually, it does it when I am on a country road, slowing down to a stop, and again, on third gear or fourth gear going down. It goes on neutral directly from this gear to N. Them, I cannot do anything no more. It will stay on neutral whatever I do, for about 15 minutes. I shut it down, restart it...nothing...and after 15 minutes, I can gear up again and drive like nothing happenned. I can drive all day after and it WiII NOT do it again for the whole day! My mecanic drove it and he could not reproduce it so it did not do it while he tested it. He is now suggesting to change the complete F1 system.This is a 25K investment so I am not really certain this is needed. I doubt the actuator has again an issue since it was not even used for 1000km since it was rebuild. It cost me 5000$ to have this done so I would not want to change it for a new 12K part, for nothing. The car was tested with a Ferrari tester. NO codes is ever recorded. No lost of pressure at all. All the system is showing as fine. I even was able to reproduce this at one point with the ferrari tester on the car, myself ( He had let me run with it) and...the car did not even pick this up when it went on neutral again. Any suggestions? Change the selenoids? Anything else? I am not a rich guy and 25K is really a lot of $$$ Can't sell the car as is also with that issue and, changing the whole system sounds drastic for a car that has a new rebuild actuator. Also, I purchased the EDIF bypass system from Swiss scuding and their electronic relay. I does run better but did not fix my issue. Again, there is no lost of pressure at all and the system is perfect. Let me know your thoughts...I may change everything else than the actuator but...am I doing this for nothing. My wife does not want to drive with me anymore since she is scared we will stay stuck everytime and the fun I had ...I lost it in the last 2 years so I really need any real suggestion on what I could do next. My mecanic is a certified ferrari master mechanics so he knows these cars...But he is questining himself on this issue and naturally, changing everything would fix it. Hope I can find a cure to this at a reasonable cost The car has 27000Miles and all the F1 system is original except the Actuator that was rebuilt. Had the car for 6 years and never had any gear problems before I had that leak and changed this actuator...for a leak. I know there are many fixes to similar issues here but with no pressure lost or any computer probelm being picked up, I did not find any similar issues. Thanks all.
Try this in this order Bleed system as per WSM .. including removing the actuator and using bypass screws to bleed correctly ..make sure they are tight when they go back Do a gearbox relearn after bleed Replace accumulator ..this is a wear item and based on your mileage ..if original definitely could be an issue Lately ..since you .mention heat related ..it could be the sensors on the actuator ..i would do the first items above first and see if fixes the problem I am making a big assumption that the clutch has more than 35 percent left ...a badly worn clutch cam also cause the issue you mentioned Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Thank you very much! Yes, I can confirm the Clutch is at 85% new (15% use) I will take your advice and do so. The only issue is that we have the F1 Grand prix in 2 weeks here in Montreal and these Ferrari repair guys are all extremely busy trying to repair everything so everyone can have their car for this weekend. I will have to do those test it July. I will definitively keep you updated. Thank you again.
I wish I could but in Canadian $$$, having the kit sent here and done would cost about 60K, which is expensive. 25K USD for the kit, custom taxes 15-20%, installation 10K, USD exchange rate at close to 30%...I know it would bring value to the car but the investment is still very important in CAN $! And changing the complete system seems radical also
Maybe you can at least do some timing tests How many seconds does pump run when you open door, how long does it stay off (with key in "on" position) , how many shifts do you get before pump restarts .. do that timing with key in on position and then repeat the test with engine running That will start to point to a possible issue depending on timings Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Hi! I will look into this tomorrow and let you know durring the weekend. But I am uncertain how to do some of these...Like how many shifts before the pump restarts? While driving on with the key on...It wont shift after 1st I think. Sorry, I am mechanicaly challenged (hahaha) so with a small how to do course, I will learn fast I can count the seconds it runs when I open the door no problem...After...Do I put it 'on' and count between two pump runs? As far as the shift portion..I will need more details. And when I get these, do I send this to you? Thank you very much for this, and all the people trying to help. Very appreciated!
Would like to know how long the F1 pump stays on and how long does it remain off ..duration and cycle times I would like you to take note of those two items for the following Door opening Key on but with engine off -dash lights on Engine running in neutral Then shut car off but put key into on position again Then how many shifts do you get before you get pump to cycle .. Shift from 1 to n to 1 and let me know how many shifts before pump turns on ..also note the same as above duration Do the same shifting with engine running.. Tell me all those timing and hopefully we can get to one or two possible items to look into I sent you my number .. sometimes it is easier to talk it out Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
I can understand the conversion is expensive and possibly not a solution in your case for you. However, let me say this for others reading. It is not a "radical" system change. The F430 is one of the few cars built where a manual conversion is basically plug and play as the gearbox was built for the manual. You eliminate the entire hydraulic system and the problems that come with it which I experienced and you are currently experiencing. I hate it for you because I understand the frustration.
This does not sound like a pressure issue. Presumably the car behaved normally before the actuator was rebuilt? @flash32 has provided some good advice above. I would start with #1 and #2 for now. If you hadn't replaced the actuator I'd look at the solenoids - the symptoms are similar to a solenoid control issue or solenoid failure, but it's better to start with the obvious things first. N.B. I would not be happy with a $5k actuator being returned to me out of alignment. That's a very fundamental part of the rebuild process. It might be worth removing the actuator from the gearbox to run through the gears and visually check actuator movements.
Thanks for the great advice. I also found curious that a Ferrari Master Mechanic did not know they needed a tool to align this The unit was returned perfect by GTE engenering, it is my mechanic that re-installed it without any tools on the transmission at first and it wasnt working well at all! He purchased the tool from Ferrari after to allign it. He learned that he needed this from the guy thet rebuild the actuator! I was certainly not happy! The car did behave normaly before the actuator was rebuild but it was leaking. The funny thing is that I took the car again today. Same thing...30 minute drive , I slow down and, from 3 to Neutral at the stop sign. I wait 15 minute with the engine closed, they start the car again...Play with the paddle shift and, at one point, shifting with the left one, down shift...it goes on 1st and I can drive again....for the full day! I drove 2 hours after trying to re-create it and, it would not do it. It runs like a normal car. It seems like I have to have it standing for at least a day, it will do it once once and noting after. I also was thinking about a solenoid issue. I cant really have someone look into this before July now, because of the Grand prix crazynest here for the next 2 weeks...Every garage are over worked because everyone wants their car for the race weekend! I am printing all of these advise and will take them with me in July. I would be very surprise that I need to change the complete system, like I am being suggested to do now by him. I guess it's easier than to find the issue... Thanks again and I will keep you posted when I get it back to a garage. Eric
Thanks!!! I will look at this and educate myself so I know what the guy will talk about when I retrun it in July.
One this I am surprised, The car does not produce any codes at all. If it was a solenoid or a valve issue, wouldnt the computer record it? I am getting this problem often and not once, I got a code on the car or, on a OBD Ferrari reader. Could a solenoid be defective and not give any codes of it having an issue?
One this I am surprised, The car does not produce any codes at all. If it was a solenoid or a valve issue, wouldnt the computer record it? I am getting this problem often and not once, I got a code on the car or, on a OBD Ferrari reader. Could a solenoid be defective and not give any codes of it having an issue?
Hopefully just misaligned actuator or need to run a learning sequence but how can you trust the mechanic who failed to align/properly install the actuator? I would take it to another mechanic who should provide you documentation of the tolerances and chosen feeler width (required per WSM and mentioned via the YouTube linked) There could be damage to the actuator i.e. mushrooming that is causing the system to get confused. It appears there is little tolerance for error and really high PSI behind the shift mechanism. Most important piece of the video where he is tightening the actuator after measurement and calc of feeler width to "shim": Image Unavailable, Please Login
The jig and alignment should have been done at the place that rebuilt it .. Once set properly you don't need to touch it when removing or replacing on transmission Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
GTE Engineering should have done this when they rebuilt it. It seems strange that they should expect and advise your tech to do it. Sent from my SM-G955F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
You might want to think about looking at the solenoids , if you have a coil on its way out- it will start to show when the coil has been energized a few times, if it has a breakdown of the coil insulation it will start to heat up and will get to a point where it is not working. The fact that it works when cold but gives problems after a while is a good indicator of this. Look to measuring the resistance of the coils when cold and when the car is giving trouble. If i recall the coils are in the rear left wing by the f1 tank- you can remove the rear wheel liner and the engine panel to get access. Drive the car down the road until you get problems- then feel the coils to see if one is a different temp to the others. Given the situation you are in, it might be worth looking at a set of coils
There will not be codes. There are blind spots in the diagnostics and this area is one of them. I have first hand experience. It sounds like a solenoid issue, but as per my last post I would try to confirm the actuator is okay first, as everything was working well before that was replaced. Your mechanic should not have to align the actuator. It should have arrived to you ready to fit
Looking at the parts diagram they appear to sell the valve complete but no separate coil, must be a standard coil
Yes it's self contained Mike. There are some cheaper options posted elsewhere on the forum, from memory solenoids used in other Magneti Marelli Selespeed equipped cars. It's possible to run an activation test and measure leakage rates through diagnostics but that's about it.
Those type of valves might be like the pneumatic type, the coil lifts a diaphragm. I seem to recall seeing a chart on here which shows a combination of 2 or 3 valves operating to select a specific gear , then another combination to select a different one again. The centre core which runs in the centre of the coil is spring loaded in those i have had apart. ASCO controls would be a good place to look for coils, they do a lot of the solenoid valves
