build quality and reliability questions

I completely understand what you're saying and where you're coming from. Granted, I've got a peasant FF but for a car that sold for $378k new, there are plenty of gremlins I haven't been happy with. From the sticky buttons, interior rattles and creaks (car had 4k miles when I bought it) to the battery tender always needing to be plugged, my experience with the Ferrari has been somewhat surprising (not in a good way). I've had the car for 1.5 years, have put on about 6,000 miles on it and am just now really figuring out all its quirks. For the most part I've been pretty happy but for the price of these things, you should get better attention to detail IMO.

Would I buy it again, hell yeah. You only live once and should definitely experience the prancing horse for yourself Good luck

 

F12 uses top notch components and parts just like the Audi. As far as getting things engineered so that you can take off parts with 1mm to spare, mass produced cars win hands down. With exception of the engine which is in essence what you pay for, the rest of the car is put together like an expensive custom hotrod. There are some things that are engineered super well like suspension components that all come off super easy and go back with no need for realignment. There are also some things that are put together as the car was being assembled with no regard on servicing the part in the future like hoses. As far as actual design flaw--I think battery being in the engine bay next to the header & using thin alternator pulley (which have been revised for 812) are the only 2 I can think of so far--the 812 system bolts into F12 btw. I would relocate this battery except I use the rear hatch space pretty often. There are also material choices that prioritize feel and look over function. Dash leather is one good example. It's super supple leather you would use to fashion your own underwear. IMHO it doesn't belong in a car. It feels and looks Ferrari, but I can't park it in the sun for too long b/c it'll shrink. It's stuff like that. All those sacrifice for the ultimate driving experience is why some choose to pay 400k for a car. when I first rev'ed one I knew I wanted one. I also got very smart friends who much rather have a base tesla over my f12 for reliability and utility. It ain't for everyone.

 

Welcome to the forum.

Based on what you've said, Ferraris are definitely not for you. Stick to the German stuff (and Aston Martin). You'll have a lot less grief.

 

I come from a long line of Porsche...GT cars and Wife have Cayanne's and Panamera's. Sold cars but issues too. My Ferrari 488 2019 with 7500 miles has been just as reliable and solid.

 

I can only speak for the F12 but it would be counter productive to just write about it. Feel free to DM me and I’d be more than happy to chat with you and share my experience which has been very positive. I did a lot of research, talked to Ferrari mechanics and other owners to make my decision and I’ve been very satisfied with my F12 ownership


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When you drive Ferrari, you belong to a very passionate family; it's pure emotion.
(Small) imperfections are then accepted. As mentioned above: you buy an engine with drivetrain/chassis; you get the rest for free (according to Ferrari).
I myself have been driving Audi as a daily car for almost 20 years. No Audi was perfect; many electrical faults and creaks.
If you want a 100% perfect car, choose a Japanese (Suzuki, Toyota, etc.). These cars all come out on top in the test. No German (or Italian) can compete with that.
Good luck in your choice!

 

My 2 cents: I’ve owned a 16 California T and now an f12.
I’ve had bmws and Porsches prior.

Didn’t own the California long enough - too soft, rolled like a ship vs my Porsche turbo. Flipped it and looked a long time for an F12 that didn’t scream “ look at me”. Bought a blue ‘14 F12 certified . $440k sticker. Had 12k miles but I wanted car to drive and didn’t want risk w car that’s been sitting forever. I daily drove my f12 for a year. Put 4k glorious miles ( nearly all highway ) on it. Considering selling w 15.7k miles. Perfect car. Best color Love it.
That one has to put these cars on tenders amazes but it’s a minor inconvenience when traveling. That said - easy enough to replace battery which obviates most issues.

In short - been surprisingly happy- car has been rock solid. That said I’d be careful with cars that have been sitting a long time Albeit low miles. Do PPI on anything -
Stereo is sub par - my biggest complaint.

I bought my car certified and added power warranty. Some things make no sense for example the main valve cover gaskets ( I replaced mine) are not covered but if your engine blows it is.
Interesting convo w the factory as I made this point. They acquiesced on several issues. Hilarious that I’ve had to talk to fiorella” in the factory several times. Super nice - actually very helpful.

You will undoubtably be frustrated with something or another but buying a good car to start and doing a little preventative maintenance will help you avoid issues. Get a warranty so you can sleep. I replaced my water pump under warranty. Dealer wanted to fix - I convinced them to replace. Would have been $2k

I did 3k leather work on a certified car. Incredibly frustrating. Sales guy cut me a personal check to help offset but the dealer wasn’t helpful. After all - I bought it based on pictures. Silly me assuming there wouldn’t be anything obvious it needed… on a certified car from a dealer….
Inspect carefully.

You are right to be hesitant but my Porsche turbo (14) was soulless and this thing is amazing. It’s all I can do not to drive it always. F12 - so glad I bought/ experienced before we are all running around in little electrics…..

Good luck

 

Driven around 100k miles over 12 different cars in the last 10 years. Up to 430 things were not done so well, still good (you pay for a car that is ‘closer to the edge’ in terms of its performance and emotion envelope which compromises various practical things) but my then 8-10 year old cars used suspension components like oil and if you had an engine issue, it was usually expensive to get to it so labour costs were high. Since DCT gearbox cars arrived things seemed to change. The only issues in about 85k miles and 10 cars have been battery related. These are a definite weak point but don’t affect every car. It’s a must to religiously use the tender though. We use our cars mostly for road trips between 1k and 3k miles and we do around 3 per year. It’s a real PITA to break down on one of those but I have no qualms using the Ferraris. They are very well engineered and reliable in my experience, particularly considering you’re putting up to 1,000 hp through four small rubber patches. Even our SF90 hybrid with all its complexity has been bulletproof in 3k miles.

I’ve had Mac and multiple Porsches in that time too. Still a good experience but there have been a few more small issues with Porsche than with Ferrari but overall very similar experience. I use Porsche on track more than Ferrari but I have had the Speciale around a few tracks and Pista Spider around Donington for a day. Zero issues. Not the same with McLaren according to a good friend of mine who has tracked his 675. Having it shipped back from Zandvoort, twice, was not much fun for him. He bought a GT3 instead. He kept the 675 for a while though because he said it drove brilliantly. Even preferred it to his Speciale.

 

Its a matter of setting expectations and understanding what you are buying. There are pros and cons with anything.

I know people with issues with just about every type of car- you name it- they found issues.

Ive never been left stranded in a Ferrari (knocking on wood now)- whereas I have been left stranded on several occasions with much higher volume luxury marques (Ferrari still only makes about 10k vehicles a year).

Ferrari is an experience and a lifestyle and becoming part of a shared dream. Driving a Toyota is great, but you are not doing any of that- its an appliance.


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Ferrari is not for you, from what you outlined in your OP

Having worked with an owned 40+ Audi over the past 20 years, IMO you have been lucky with your R8, as my first hand experience Audi vs Ferrari, they have a lot in common. ( Some even share parts ) Audi and their: Flaking soft touch finish problem, the carbon build up in the intake system, control arm bushing failures, etc... every make has their challenges. You have to choose what is more important to you.

458/California/F12 / FF , all good 1st Ferrari, some of the most reliable of the options out there. The newer with more technology (bells & whistles) the more to go wrong, this applies to both brands. Fit and finish, Audi hands down has had the best for years! Ferrari, design, functionality, miles of smiles... wins hands down.

Porsche/Audi owners have a transition period when coming to the Italian side of things, there is a give and take between the two.

A Ferrari is not an Audi
An Audi is not a Ferrari
Apples and Oranges.


Maybe rent something for a week and report back.... driving a rental Ferrari will answer your questions IMO

Good Luck and welcome,

Steve

 

You had to throw Aston Martin in there!? Wow, talk about reliability.....

 

Welcome on the forum here.
I drive over 10K miles in various Ferrari's every year.
So far they have proven to be very, very reliable.
I've had a few battery issues, but thats been covered by the awesome 7 year warranty.

Just what everyone else also mentions, there are issues with each and evewry car and brand. Sometimes you get 'lucky' or you have bad luck.
Me and my wife had nothing but problems with our Range Rovers. When she traded her's in for a Cayenne, the dealer said the exact opposite.

Ferrari is more then the sum of the parts. You become part of the 'family'. If you ever have the pelasure to visit Maranello, you will truly experience that. Besides owning a car brand that has so much incredible history that you will become part of that history yourself.

It's like looking at Cindy Crawford (yes,I'm old!), do you see the mole on her face or a beautiful woman? Every car has it's imperfections. Audi, Merc, BMW, Porsche, McL, all have issues.

Before owning a Ferrari (in my late twenties) I always told everyone that Ferrari's we either for "old dudes" or "Posers". The minute I started and drove my frist one (Scuderia) I knew I was in love. Now I don't see Ferrari owners like that anymore. I see a very, very large portion as serious enthusiasts. So much more than with other brands. Some of my best friends and business accociates all originate from a connection with the Ferrari brand.
From a emotional and business perspective, owning a Ferrari has surpassed my expectations based on the full picture.

 

Yup. The Gaydon cars are utterly reliable and over-engineered. As a result, they are overweight, underpowered and dynamically a generation behind the competition but that’s the price you pay for the reliability.

Go on any Aston forum and you’ll find that the tone is all about upgrades, road trips and model specs. There’s very little about mechanical gremlins. The only complaints are about leaking tail lamps, head lamps and bad paint - none of which will leave you stranded by the roadside!

 

So funny as several owners I know have nothing but reliability issues. In fact, the DBX broke down from pick up to my to the owner's house on the highway and had to be towed.
Seesm to be we all have different issues and cases of good vs bad luck.
But based on what I'm hearing around me, I would never consider an AM.

 

Hah! The DBX is more Mercedes than Aston. Merc engine, Merc electronics and Merc infotainment!

But fair enough, I don’t doubt your experience. I haven’t been close to the Aston scene for a few years so the newer models could be letting the side down.

 

And again, people arpound me could also simply have a "Friday afternoon car'.
But it was heartbreaking to hear a brand spanking new DBX being towed back to the dealer 30 minutes after it was picked up!

 

I did own 2010 Carrera S, Panamera turbo, 2018 Mclaren 720s ,Now have Rolls Royce Wraith Black badge, F12, Bentley Flying Spur...
So far the F12 is the most reliable car on par with the Bentley, I daily drive it..
The engine is incredible.. start every morning.. great sound and comfort.. interior quality is awesome.. like sitting in Nattuzi Sofa..only issue with my car is it doesn't has nice stereo system..
I never has issue with Battery, it just regular battery.. work well for 3 years... then just throw it away same as every car..
the engine never use a single drop of oil.. it just perfect like the Bentley.. Transmission is great...
remember those car will have transmission issue if u doesn't know how to drive it.. because of big engine..

 

488 is the best value modern Ferrari IMO. The 458 is excellent and very popular but that drives the price to a level that makes the 488 a better value buy for driving experience. The F8 is also excellent and surprisingly different to the 488. Worth it if money no object.

If you’re keeping the R8 that elevates the V12s in your search for me. F12 is also relatively expensive given that the 812 drives so much better (again IMO). If you’re struggling to find an F12 and have the means, the 812 is a belter and would easily be my choice.

 

Based on your post I would advise you not to buy a Ferrari. It will both disappoint you and drive you crazy!

If I were you, I'd keep the old R8 and buy a new one. I'm sure they have made significant enhancements in 10 years.

 

I can see someone read the battery post recently. These issues pop up when the battery is low voltage and struggles to start the car. That's why you attempt a restart after getting charge into the battery, and if you do get charge into the battery, they do go away. Any modern car is going to have some sort of electrical issue when a battery is near dead.

I've chewed through 2 batteries from Ferrari, but swapping to a new battery really is not a big issue. Is it annoying to deal with? Yes. But for a relatively minor issue to deal with for the pleasure of driving one of the greatest cars ever made is no big deal. Outside of that the car has been great. Between having 5 years of warranty (bought 2 extra years), and the 7 years of maintenance I haven't had to worry about the car whatsoever. In pretty much every modern car I've owned, I've had some form of electronic issue crop up. It's common across a range of brands, even German ones. But if you are worried about little things, I wouldn't recommend buying an exotic car of any flavor.

 

I always had problems with cars out of the first production year of a specific model no matter which manufacturer.

So in case of buying a used one I would prefer one of the end of production.

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