Used QV Wheels vs. New Superformance Repros?

I use 16" Firestone Indys... quite happy with them.

The tread pattern isn't "classic correct", but one doesn't notice that when behind the wheel zipping along on the back roads. I do notice the nice grip.

 

I have an old one from my mondial 3.2. We changed the tires and one of the new tires would not seal on the rim. Turned out on removing the tire, part of the rim had come with it. Was not worth trying to repair

 

Late last year I bought a set of 8x16 Superformance wheels. PO had the wheels for 11 years and were never used. I removed the 11 year old brand new goodyears and replaced them with new Conti Extreme Contacts 205/55 and 225/50’s and have put them on the car wanting to get back to a more normal ‘look’. I have two sets of vintage HRE’s in silver and gold but wanted to see my car the way it was designed. I found there are many selections of 16” tires for my set up. All depends on the tire quality and how much you want to pay.
I may add a spacer to the back wheels to give a bit more offset and push the rears out.
Its fun to have options!

 

If you do a proper search here on fchat there already is an old discussion when I weighted both the superformance wheels and the original 16" Cormodora rims. The weight difference is very high especially on the rear 8" ones. I sold the repro I had, so I cannot weith them anymore: but the difference was very noticeable only raising them with hands. I sold the superformance repro and I will never buy another set: on the contrary I purchased another set of Cromodora 16" rims, as in my opinion they are precious and high quality factory original Ferrari rims.

We both wrote what we think so there not much to add: everyone can do what he prefers, of course.

Ciao

 

Someone's got to defend the poor TRX.

When they're fresh, I think they're pretty good. . imho

 

So having done a: "proper Ferrarichat search" as suggested, and a Google search, the weight difference between the original 308 wheels, and the Superformance wheels, is basically due to the original wheels being made with a percentage of magnesium, and the Superformance wheels being made purely of aluminium alloy, with no magnesium content.

Magnesium wheels, whilst lighter than aluminium wheels, are not as durable as aluminium wheels, and are more prone to becoming porous/cracking as they age (and in extreme cases, are a serious danger in the event of a fire, but this tends to be from racing magnesium wheels that have a much higher magnesium content than road wheels), hence why modern wheels (such as the Superformance wheels), are usually made of aluminium alloy only.

Reading through the various Ferrarichat threads on the subject of replacing the original 308 wheels with Superformance wheels, it seems that the almost all of those who have done it, have noticed no real difference to how the car drives, and are happy with their new wheels.

A big part of that will be because the 308's are old cars now, and very few people will be driving them in a manner that is pushing them to the limits of their handling ability, where the weight of the wheels might make a difference, at eleven tenths (maybe eight or nine tenths at times ). For most 308's (and 328's), the reality is, they're semi-retired supercars now, that get used more for "spirited" cruising, than for racing around like a mad thing.

If you need replacement wheels, and originality is your thing, or you're hypersensitive to the weight of wheels, then spend the extra money on original wheels.

If you need replacement wheels and you're not overly concerned about originality or wheel weight, and want a good solid wheel, that doesn't cost the Earth, and can handle the crappy pot-holed roads that seem prevalent these day, then buy the Superformance wheels.

 

The weight of the wheel makes a big difference, when building cars weight saving is critiacal and unsprung rotating mass is the most beneficial area to save weight.

As to how impoortant that is when not driving at the max is a bit like saying "why have i bought a Ferrari"

it isn't about the look; however those Continental tyres look dreadful. Look all the swanky script and design on the side wall. that is not what they did in the day. This is waht tyres looked like in that period.

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But to me that isn't really that important it isn't about the concourse, fitting cheaper wheels isnt really what you do with a Ferrari is it.

Yes you can take a car built and set up by Ferrari for either 14" wheels or TRX wheels, and fit 16" wheels, but it compromises the ride and handling that Ferrari built into that car.

Yes you can buy budget 16" tyres, but those 16" tyres were designed to work in a different enviroment, where the geometry of the suspension that present that rubber to the road does it from different angles of caster and camber.

Yes the differences are subtle, but a Ferrari is a combination of top quality parts cleverly combined to make an exceptional car. it is the combination of all these subtle benefits that make it what it is.

Isn't it?

 

Not a fan of Pirellis I've purchased for my vehicles in the past but I am looking at some CN36's for my restored 74 Porsche 914 LE Can Am instead of the Vredestein Spint's that were also common on them back in the day. I think the 185/70-15's will offer a better ride than the 205/60-15 Kuhmo's on it now.

 

That's correct

No, this does not apply to the Cromodora rims, as they are not full magnesium: only a better (lighter and more expensive) Al-Mg alloy than the Supeformance rims.

That's correct, but if you purchased a 40+ years old 308 and not a preowned Corvette Z06 (who is cheaper, safer and much more faster) means you are looking for something else than pure performances. In my opinion a cheap reproduction rims is not what you were looking for in a 40+ years old Ferrari, who had top performance at the time it was produced: it was the top, and it was the top also as rims. Why do you want all the car and not the rims too?

16" Superformance wheels work, of course: it's not nececessary to have OEM rims to enjoy an old Ferrari, you are right.

Resuming: Superformance rims are for who doesn't want to spend money in original TRX or XWX tires. It means only to save money: there are no other reasons, as everything else is a minus.


Ciao

 

Blimey it will be miles better on the CN36

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/porsche/914.html

Have you read the back to back tyre test the German Magazine did on classic tyres?

https://www.cinturato.net/images/test-classic-tyres-0716.pdf

The Pirelli wipes the floor with everything else. When you look at the scores it gets above average in all the scores, so is also mile better than modern tyres scoring the highest possible makes in dry braking, which is astounding for a classic tyre carcass. you would expect modern tyres to beat it in dry braking, i guess that has a lot to do with Pirellis modern compounds. You would expect their lowest score to be rolling resistence, as it wasnt something they had really got into in 1968, but a 3+ is still above average, so pretty epic.

 

Sorry but that's not correct; they are for anyone who wants to run 16" tyres and can't get (or can't justify the stupid prices) for the 16" Ferrari rims.

Back in the mid 80s (when 308s were still considered high performance cars) it was common for owners to switch to 16" wheels and tyres, particularly for track days or hill climbing. Compomotive, Gotti and other wheels were popular at the time. TB15s were also a popular choice for hill climb cars that were also road driven (although I'm not sure how legal TB15 are on the road!).

I switched my gt4 from 14" 'Dino' style wheels and XWXs to 16" Compomotives and 16" P7s and I'm never going back to XWXs. With the XWXs I once spun my car 180deg exiting a roundabout in the wet. OK so I probably ran out of talent, but they were useless in the wet! I'm quite sure the 'modern' XWXs are much better, and if you want to look period correct and don't care so much about the driving experience, buy them - but don't be snobby about it!

 

Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't

" they are for anyone who wants to run 16" tyres that can't justify the stupid prices for the 16" Ferrari rims."

just the same as

" or who doesn't want to spend money in original TRX or XWX tires. It means only to save money: there are no other reasons, as everything else is a minus. "

That is the same, isnt it? (i have removed the bit about "can't get" because it is not applicable to 308 tyres. you can get them.)


Importantly what you do for a racing car is very different to what you do on the road. A race track is breif periods on perfectly smooth tarmac, without curbs, pot holes, ruts etc. On a race track it is full throttle - hard brakes - full throttle - hard brakes - etc. it is a completely different enviroment to the road and it determines different tyres and very different geometry settings to get the best out of the tyres. If you don't faff with the camber and caster on an earl 14" wheel car and stick it on 225/50-16 tyres then you won't benefit as it will be lifting most of the tread off the tarmac in the corners and shred the outer edge of the tyre. It will need more adverse camber.



for tarmac rallying the TB15 tyres are epic and Michelin still make them. They also do the semi slick road legal TB5F and TB5R which are incredible. https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/michelin-classic-tyres/tb5.html

 

I'm going to disagree with this statement. I live in Houston, which has some very awful roads that destroy wheels. I drive my car a lot compared to most owners. I am considering some Superformance wheels so that my OEM wheels are preserved.

 

Patrick, I'm not snobby at all and I apologize If I appeared to be that: I even purchased those Superformance wheels! The following period is somethings that appears in every Ferrari 208-308 owner mind: "why shall I have to pay so much money to change my old XWX or TRX tyres? Isn't there a cheaper solution?" The solution appeared to be Superormance rims: they looked great in pictures and proved to work when arrived. But when I finally found a set of original 16" rims and I compared them, I realized what the repro are: a repro, not even close to the orginal ones, a "poor thing" fitted to a Ferrari. I got the repro as I was thinking new TRX (I never had a car with XWX, so I cannot tell enything about those tyres) were the same as 40+ years ago. When I got a set of fresh TRX, I realized what they are: same design as the OEM tyres, but with newer and excellent compound. The cars works great with FRESH TRX tyres. They do worth the money. I haven't the P7 Classic (yet...) but I was at the Pirelli Classic Line filming day at Vizzola Ticino Pirelli test track and the Pirelli project team leader told us this: "we did a lot od test about which compound to use, as too grip would destroy the car original balance and would require a brand new suspension setting. So we improved the coumpund grip, but not too much: it would have been crazy to put on it the "Trofeo R" racing compound, but we found a good compromise between driving safety and car balance." I suppose Michelin did the same.

This said, Superformance rims are on the market and many use them: but the only advantege they have is the low cost.

Ciao

 

I purchased a second set of OEM 16" rims to have them as a spare.

And then I can always refurbish or repair the OEM damaged rims too.

Ciao

P.S.
I have never been in Houston, but here In Italy awful roads are very common.

 

Correct : it's exactly the same. Of course, because it's very hard to find a plus in Superformance wheels except their low price.

Ciao

 

Err ... no?

A TRX tyre is not a 16" tyre and was never an option on gt4s. 16" and P7s were.

I'd happily use factory 16" rims and P7s but I don't see the point in paying through the nose for 'originality' over 'usability'. It depends on what you are looking for really.

 

I replaced the 14" on my US 1977 GTB with a set of original QV 16" wheels with oversize tires 225x50x16" front and 245x45x16" rear. They look good and bulbous like the 14" tires but they are not tracking correctly. I know the alignment is all screwed up with this set up and I shouldn't do it. Is there anything the alignment shop can do to improve the tracking? It feels like the car is wondering left & right slightly but still back in the center. I am having the 14" restored in the future. They are very poor cosmetically.

 

In addition to getting the alignment corrected, (before that) you should ensure that all of the connections/joints between the steering wheel and steering rack input shaft are tight and not sloppy (they are cleverly designed to not come apart, if loose, but they can still get loose), and that the front wheel bearings do not have excessive play/slop. Plus, check the condition of the various rubber A-arm bushings for any obvious non-concentricity/deterioration/deformation.

 

Amen!

 

The Chromodora castings are not great (full of inclusions and the alloy does corrode quickly.) I restored mine and it was a lot of work. I could not find any company here in the UK (that knows what is required) that could do it for what I considered a reasonable price. Having done it, I understand why it’s so expensive. Seeing the quality of the castings and knowing a bit about high-magnesium alloy ageing and embrittlement, I would not push too hard on these 43/year old wheels so the cheap Falken VR tyres are more than enough for what I will need.

I found a company that could cast and then machine both front and rear 16” copies from the same mould (correct widths and groove in the rear wheels) but the MOQ was 200 and at around £350/wheel there wasn’t enough interest in these or the coffin-spoke design in 16”. I had only about ten people interested and have nowhere to store 150 wheels!

 

Hi

It isnt tracking properly because your tyres are too wide.

The outer extremities of your tread are further away from your steering components that the car was designed to cope with. this creates greater leaverage on your steering components. They may wear quicker, but what they will do is pick up the ruts in the road and give you this tracking experience.

Pirelli make those sizes in a P7. It is a Porsche 928 fitment. fitting a P7 might well improve your handling in that it is a tyre that is suited to your chassis. (but it will only be a subtle improvement. I think they are too big.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/porsche/928.html

Interestingly they fitted those 245 tyres on the rear of 930 and 911 Carrera, but they stuck with 205/55R16 on the front.

I think a low profile 225 section tyre is very wide for the front of an none powersteering car.

The next question would be how wide are your rims. (if your rims are too thin then the tyres will be unstable on the rim). Ferrari love a good wide rim. Your rears need a 7.5" - 9" rim and you can rest assured that if Ferrari had fitted these on the rear they would have fitted at least a 9" (possibly more Ferrari are naughty like that)

 

Of all situations not to fit 16" wheels i would think that was the worst.

If you have awful roads the reason they are destroying wheels is because you are running overly low profile tyres. In your situation your car will be much better off with 205/70R14 tyres.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyres/205-70-14.html

If you are driving on pot holed roads or speed bumps, fit the smallest diameter, and thinnest wheels you can get and fit tyres with the tallest period side wall and that lovely tall, rounded side wall will give more absorbsion and protect your wheels and more importantly the rest of your car. (get your tyre pressure right too)

I regularly get customers who say - "they are going to do an endurance rally and they want to have tyre problems, they want to fit van tyres."
Why not also say - "I am going on an endurance rally and i dont want to blow a fuse so i have replaced them with 6" nails"

In the same way that your fuse is you first line of defence, your tyres are the thing that protects your suspension. You are better off with the occasiopnal knackered wheel or tyre than the other consequences.

Tall tyres protect your car. Tall wheels do not absorb the shocks of the road. the wheels get damaged and so does the car.

 

The P7 is a better tyre for your car than anything else currently on the market. because they are the only period tyre combination available.

You are not paying through the nose. Good stuff costs more.

You are not paying for "originality", you are paying for a product that will make your car handle better.

The only way "It depends on what you are looking for" is it depends how much you are prepared to compromise your cars handling and ride to save a few quid on tyres.

 

Set of modern tyres = £400
Set of TRX tyres = £1,600

In fairness it's a bit more than 'a few quid'