360 - Anyone ever had this ? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

360 Anyone ever had this ?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Majin_JT, Jun 5, 2022.

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  1. Fcar tech

    Fcar tech Karting

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    #26 Fcar tech, Jun 6, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2022
    Wrong bolts. Bolts on the case snapped.
    Drain what's left of gear oil and report back.
    Does the side bearing exposed spin by hand? Strange no noises before failure, bearings usually howl..
     
  2. Majin_JT

    Majin_JT Formula Junior

    Mar 15, 2008
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  3. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Looks like you want to replace the complete differential after that kind of failure. $3K for the complete diff.
     
  4. Julian Thompson

    Julian Thompson Formula Junior
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    Apr 25, 2016
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    What you can see there is this part of the output shaft snapped off. The diff is totally separate from that shaft, as you can see from my photos. So I can't see why you would need to replace the diff, personally?

    Since this is the side of the car that the differential access cover does not bolt to the gearbox you are basically looking from the other side at what I show here from inside.

    The shaft is on a spline drive as you can see, so you have two choices. You try to get that broken shaft out by protecting the bearing from "stuff" and coming up with a clever way of extracting it, or, you accept that you're taking the box out and get it on the floor, in which case it's simple enough to pull it to bits and do it that way but of course it's a lot of work to get the gearbox out. I guess you could combine it with a new clutch at that mileage and some other maintenance.

    If you do try to take it out in situ please understand that I don't know for certain if it will go back in ok - or if the diff will move when you remove the shaft as it will only be supported from the other side etc. It might be worth a go, on the basis that if it has to come to bits anyway what did you lose?

    Hope that helps,
    J
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  5. Julian Thompson

    Julian Thompson Formula Junior
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    Just following up to say I remember now - the diff can't move as it has that thrust bearing you can see pressed into a bearing shell in the fixed side of the gearbox, which is good news.
     
  6. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
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    If the splines aren’t damaged, you should be able to pull the remaining piece out with a strong magnet. I’m assuming it’s steel. If it comes out, take a very close look at the splines and see if they are damaged. Compare them to the new axle piece. Also look at the splines on the diff inside the gearbox. If both don’t looked damaged, carefully slide the new stub axle into the diff. It should slide in easily, but snug. A little grease will help.


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  7. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    You will be lucky to get that out with a magnet, more like have to drill and tap the centre and extract it
     
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  8. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    This. Splines are never that easy to come out in my experience regardless of location..
     
  9. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    My experience also, at work we used to get a specialist to remove broken cylinder head studs from the main engines, these things were about 2 inch dia and would break in the block. They used to burn out a square into the broken stud using a mini electrode, then fit the male end of an impact extension bar and impact it out. These things could be deep but they got them out.
     
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  10. 67bmer

    67bmer Formula 3
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    at a minimum, remove the diff from the other side and inspect thoroughly!

    I would take the whole transmission out and flush the entire thing, radiator, and exchanger with mineral spirits to make sure there are not any extraneous particles floating around and rebuild as I did mine.

    I would make sure the transmission rotates freely in neutral.

    It's probably a fracture at a stress riser due to heat treatment. You do need to make sure the diff rotates freely and is pre-loaded and not "sloppy" loose. If it was loose (radially but also axially, they are not independent), it could have caused the fracture.
     
  11. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    If it were me I'd tape it cardboard tube to protect the area use a 1/8" to 1/4" bit and drill it out, then use an extractor to bite into it and pull it out.
     
  12. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    Its looks to me to be well in and the shaft is 40 mm ?? You will need a long series drill and a guide bush to drill and tap say 10 or 12 mm.Not convinced on stud extractor, you might be lucky through
     
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  13. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

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    That will be a nightmare to drill, it’s crazy hardened steel.


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  14. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

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    I would think it is only surface hardened in way of the splines, but i was wondering since it sheared if it has work hardened. He has got away lightly given the sheared bolts and no damage to the gear wheels
     
  15. Julian Thompson

    Julian Thompson Formula Junior
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    I think it will drill with a cobalt drill. I don't recall it being difficult to pull the splines out (but through a little screw thread extractor I concede that it's going to be harder) so if you could get an extractor in with some kind of protrusion from the box then I think one of those sets of mole grips that has a little slide hammer actually built on to them (Laser Tools in the UK make them) would work well.

    I'm really not sure about removing the diff. That's a clean break in that shaft - once (if) you get it out you can inspect the two pieces and be 95% sure there is nothing missing from the snap that can have gone in the box. I'm just not sure you want to escalate this more than needed unless it's needed. You might end up fixing it until it's broke!
     
  16. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    The Ind rear drag race and drift guys break axles like this all the time.

    New axle and back to racing.


    I would drain and inspect the trans fluid for rainbow.


    Any chance of welding a bolt to that broken stub to aid extraction?
     
  17. Majin_JT

    Majin_JT Formula Junior

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    sorry everyone for the delay i have a little update .... broken piece was carefully extracted and looks in good condition too me ...new shaft + bearing ect.. all been ordered .

    the box will also be drained and cleaned out ect with mutliple flushes ..

    waiting for the parts to arrive and hopefully when everything is back together i will have happy smiles once again

    will give more updates as i go along

    many thanks to everyones involvement
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  18. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    No retail multi thousand dollar fix necessary! All win.


    Hope flushes show no issues.
     
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  19. Snapshift

    Snapshift Formula Junior
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    Amazing well thought out work sir. This should be one for the permanent records.
     
  20. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Forgive me if I missed it ..but what was the root cause..i had mentioned the side plate bearing but given the pics i don't think that was it

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  21. Julian Thompson

    Julian Thompson Formula Junior
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    FANTASTIC. Happy to help.
     

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