456 Compression and Leak Down Test Numbers | FerrariChat

456 Compression and Leak Down Test Numbers

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by rix288GTO, Jun 27, 2022.

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  1. rix288GTO

    rix288GTO Rookie

    Dec 7, 2021
    7
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Hi All,

    Looking for some feedback on Compression and Leak Down Test numbers for a 456M GTA I'm looking to buy.

    The compression seems quite good but I'm unsure about the leak down as I have heard that below 20% is acceptable whilst others say no more than 10% is acceptable.

    Compressions
    1. 185
    2. 180
    3. 180
    4. 180
    5. 185
    6. 190
    7. 185
    8. 190
    9. 185
    10. 175
    11. 180
    12. 185

    Cylinder Leak Down
    1, 7, 5, 11, 3, 9, 6, 12, 2, 8, 4, 10

    1. 8%
    2. 14%
    3. 10%
    4. 10%
    5. 10%
    6. 4%
    7. 4%
    8. 8%
    9. 8%
    10. 16%
    11. 12%
    12. 8%
     
  2. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,635
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    My engine was rebuilt and leak down is < 2% on all cylinders. Anything above 10% would concern me. 14% and 16% would cause me to wring hands. Could be carbon build up on exhaust valves though may not it be a huge deal you can do various things to help that. Seafoam though intake vacuum works well on the imports. Smokes like you would not believe though. You can do the leak down and listen for air and determine where the air is going, exhaust valves or intake valves or rings. Technon does diddly as a remedy I found.

    For me at least leak down is more important than compression and compression is a momentary bump, leak down tells how well its holding. People love compression tests, mainly because they can mis-lead as to condition.
     
  3. wmuno

    wmuno Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 24, 2007
    434
    Wilmette, Illinois
    Full Name:
    Bill Muno
    Plus or minus 10% is considered to be very good. If you take 185 psi as an approximate median, than all your values are within + or - 18 psi of 185 psi. Everything seems to be OK.
     
  4. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 28, 2018
    5,635
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Eric
    #4 Ferrarium, Jun 27, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2022
    For compression tests yes. Like I said everyone focuses on the compression test. As if the leak down is incidental. It should be the primary test for me at least other disagree and that's fine. People like leaky engines apparently. :p

    Those leak down numbs don't tend to get better with time. When there is actual violent combustion a whole bunch of power escapes and is going where its not supposed to at that scale.

    Some folks say 20% leak down is fine. Ok... but at some point is was likely 2-3%. See what I mean about trajectory and time. Could just be carbon next step is to determine WHERE the air is going. Seriously.
     
  5. Dave Bertrand

    Dave Bertrand Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 24, 2005
    771
    Castle Rock, CO
    The point of a leakdown test isn't just to measure it, but to diagnose what is causing excessive loss so that the problem can be fixed. The numbers alone aren't worth much, but I'm in the camp that believes anything over 10% is cause for concern, even though the engine may run fine.
     
  6. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    12,662
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    I would buy that car if those are the only test data I have. While more than 10% leak down is a cause for concern, those few numbers are not a reason to tear down the engine and spend $25k for a rebuild. Buy at the right price, drive, drive hard, drive harder, re-test, and go from there.
     
    2NA likes this.
  7. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,386
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    16% on cylinder 10 deserves some investigation. Could indicate a future valve guide issue. Or a valve adjustment is badly needed.
     
  8. rix288GTO

    rix288GTO Rookie

    Dec 7, 2021
    7
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Thanks for the feedback guys. I will most likely buy it and i have spoken to the mechanic who will endeavor to investigate cylinder 10.
     
    Mirek likes this.
  9. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,072
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    456s and 456Ms were susceptible to the dreaded brass valve guide problem that also afflicted the F355. Ferrari fixed it on the F355 during production, but never bothered on the V12s until the 575M and its sintered steel valve guides. Often there would only be a few non-bronze valve guides in a set, so it was really hit and miss. Most 456s and 456Ms (and 550s) were not afflicted.

    The sintered steel valve guides from Ferrari are so expensive, most techs recommended using good quality bronze guides from other sources.
     
  10. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    1,069
    As this is an automatic I would perform a valve adjustment, remove intake and clean intake valves as it is common to see intake valves carboned up due to low RPM use. I suspect you will find this is due for a valve job.
     
    Llenroc likes this.
  11. Ferrari Tech

    Ferrari Tech Formula 3

    Mar 5, 2010
    1,126
    Georgia
    Full Name:
    Wade Williams
    I would not be afraid of this car. It is an old car and numbers will not be perfect. Compression test is very good indicator of possible issues. 175-190 is well within 10%. Leak will help pinpoint an issue. As stated already, without further inspection with the leak down, it really doesn't tell you much. It is possible that a good ole' Italian tune up will help those numbers. I have driven a number of cars really hard and you would be shocked at how much junk gets blown out the exhaust when driven hard. No guaranty that it helps, but it is a good time.
     
    Llenroc and tbakowsky like this.
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    38,072
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    I remember an old Aston-Martin maintenance schedule that called for "decoking the cylinder heads" at regular intervals. Italian tune-up does some of that for you and the Ferrari V12 is a lot cleaner burning than the old A-Ms.
     

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