First drive in an 812 | Page 3 | FerrariChat

First drive in an 812

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Jack-Porsche, Jun 20, 2022.

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  1. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Definitely a lot to ask for a tire. Maybe too much!
     
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  2. Thecadster

    Thecadster F1 Veteran
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    Apr 27, 2017
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    This is my favorite 812 video. I have watched it dozens of times.

     
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  3. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Yes, epic video! Jethro is really good. Doesn’t look like a GT car there! :)
     
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  4. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2006
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    I loved my 812SF but traded it for my soon to be incoming 812GTS. I sincerely hope I’m not disappointed in the driving dynamics of the GTS.
     
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  5. Maximus1973

    Maximus1973 Formula 3

    Oct 29, 2016
    1,358
    It's a bit softer than the SF, but pop the top down and you'll quickly forget about that!
     
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  6. HardTen

    HardTen Formula 3
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    Aug 7, 2011
    2,116
    Ft. Worth, TX
    I agree with pretty much everything in this post. The differences for me is I skipped the F8 but had a 488 Spider, and I don’t have an 812 (yet) but I do have a TDF. I’m also a top down when possible type of guy so my comparison would be the Speciale Aperta, Pista Spider, and the TDF. Similar comments for the three cars as listed by the above owner. Ultimately if I had to sell my Ferrari’s and could only keep one car it would be the Aperta. I just love that car! The Pista Spider is a very serious car that can be driven comfortably around town, but can go to serious “hold on to your helmet” type driving in an instant. The TDF is well a TDF.:) IMHO the best review of the TDF is the one done by Chris Harris. I’m hoping for a little more from an 812GTS, but I’ll have to wait a little longer for that experience.

    Also, I completed the first two segments of the Corso Pilota program a few years ago at COTA in Austin, TX. The cars supplied by Ferrari were brand new 812’s and 488’s. The 812 was amazing on the track and depending on driver skill could outpace the 488 with the major difference being the straights. The 488 was quicker in the S sections and turns, but give the 812 just a little bit of a straight and the 488 didn’t have a chance of keeping up.
     
  7. Quietriot

    Quietriot Karting
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    Oct 28, 2018
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    My Personal Favorite video.

    So true.

     
  8. nickorette

    nickorette Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2017
    341
    Canada
    OP is likely just describing how the cars feel due to packaging differences.

    812 has a huge V12 behind the front axle driving the rear wheels, long wheelbase and driver sitting further back.

    488/F8 has engine in front of the rear axle for more traction over the rear wheels. Less weight out front, shorter wheelbase and driver sitting closer to front axle for better steering response.
     
  9. vonbeeler

    vonbeeler Formula Junior
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    Jul 28, 2012
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    Mike
    Ohh that explains it;)


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  10. Newjoint

    Newjoint Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2016
    1,066
    Pop the top down and mash the throttle- it is surreal


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  11. sampelligrino

    sampelligrino Formula 3

    Apr 16, 2017
    1,129
    FWIW this was my experience, limited with my tdf vs my Speciale - had to do with psychological factors and how big your cojones are

    Speciale (mid engine V8) feels like a go kart, behaves like a go kart, looks like a go kart, and I can whip it around like a go kart mostly with ease without fear of killing myself

    Tdf (front engine V12) does not look like a go kart, and sitting in the car dimensions-wise you're telling yourself this should be like a Bentley GT or AMG GT, so your mind is already making assumptions. Put it in drive and start cruising along at low speeds and your assumptions are validated, right. Put hammer down, if you are so brave... and then the driving dynamics totally and unnaturally tell you that this is still a go kart! Especially at speed, where it tightens up and shrinks more. It was the most mind blowing thing to me, seeing a big front engine V12 that I expected to feel fat and heavy, that does turn-in telepathically, instantly and will rip the whole car with it, as if the engine is smack in the middle of the car or just behind you. It defies your idea of physics...

    If you don't push the front engine V12, or treat it like a go kart, which I wouldn't blame anyone as it needs to be respected, it feels like a GT cruiser at low speeds. Goad it on and watch what unfolds, really highlights the magic Ferrari has done with tdf and I'd imagine very very similar for the 812S/812C
     
  12. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2006
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    Perfectly stated!
     
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  13. Newjoint

    Newjoint Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2016
    1,066
    It is the perfect bipolar car-
    When going slow it’s doing the best BarcaLounger impression it can muster but it’s depressing…
    When going fast, we’ll it’s a manic state best controlled by a driver on amphetamines…


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  14. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
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    Mar 22, 2013
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    We raised three boys who were all great kids as teenagers and fine men today. I would never hand the keys of our 812 over to a teenage boy. But I would have never handed the keys to the F8, 488, Portofino either. Hahaha!!


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  15. jumpinjohn

    jumpinjohn F1 Veteran
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    Mar 22, 2013
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    That’s been my experience as well. The F8 more easily driven than an 812…


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  16. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    That's because it's not really a front engine car. It is basically a mid engined car, with the engine placed behind the front axle, instead of in front the rear. The weight distribution is similar to that of a rear-mid engined Ferrari.
     
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  17. plastique999

    plastique999 F1 Veteran
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    Nov 9, 2008
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    Same experience…
    Speciale - light, nimble, playful.
    TDF - bucking bronco with the magic of rear wheel steering for Virtual Short Wheelbase.


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  18. R J

    R J Formula Junior

    May 17, 2017
    583
    UK
    Do you have the Pirelli tyres or the Michelin PS4S fitted to your 812? Recently changed from Pirelli to Michelin. As a result the 812 lost some of the information/feedback through the steering, but gained a ton in terms of grip and traction at road speeds (including at cooler ambient temp), less tramlining and they warm up much sooner. On balance it makes the car more accessible more of the time. It is still a mad tiger on the hunt, but has been given a rabies vaccine. On the Pirellis it has late stage rabies and it is looking to kill (if you try to use its performance on the road).

    I have struggled to use all the performance on U.K. roads. There is just too much performance and it is a bit too big and heavy to really press on. If you get in trouble there is a lot of mass to catch. So I can drive slower cars faster on road than the 812. I have had the 812 on track at Fiorano (Pilota course) and also on track in the U.K. With warm tyres, on track, it is incredible and you can actually use all of the available RPM through the 8,900 redline. It does generate great traction but you need to balance power versus grip and traction just like old cars (you cannot plant it an rely on traction control - not that you would anyway as that is lazy driving). It is quite short geared so can access the far reaches of the engine’s range - and there is little inertia - it climbs the revs so quickly for such a big capacity engine.

    One the road - while I have approached the redline on occasion (very rare occasion) I have only done so in a measured way by slowly sinking the throttle to reach the redline - not access the massive acceleration but nearly to get to the redline in low gears. I have not found a public road long enough or wide enough or traffic free enough to get to the redline as quickly as the available traction allows (unlike on track where you can). And certainly not in higher gears. Perhaps different in US where you have some bigger and quieter roads. In south England. Not possible (well, not responsible or prudent - unless you are channeling racing driver skills).
    I can feel like a warrior redlining lesser cars and driving them to their limits. I am more of a worrier when trying the same in the 812 on the road - so don’t do it. May be I need more practice - have only covered 5,600 miles in the 812 so far.
     
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  19. john Owen

    john Owen Formula Junior

    Dec 27, 2018
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    Your driving impressions on the 812 mimic mine exactly. Mine is still on Pirellis as I'm still undecided what tyres to replace them with. I really like the new Continentals Sport Contact 7 but they don't come in 812 sizes. I also like the Bridgestones which fit the 812 although I quite like the Pirells once warmed up as they feel really sporty and react very quickly to steering inputs as long as they are smooth and measured.
    The other alternative is to keep the Pirellis and switch to proper winter tyres in Oct/Nov.
    I agree in that you can't just stamp the throttle all the way to the redline like I can do with my 2019 3RS which has superior traction and a lot less power.
     
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  20. wthensler

    wthensler F1 Rookie
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    Apr 27, 2015
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    William
    I’d highly recommend anyone who wants to drive this car aggressively start with a mid engine like a 458 or 488, an instructor with HPDE lessons, and access to a track and/or a skid pad. Learn the nuances of how to handle a high performance car in different modes, braking and throttle response, weighting and unweighting, T/C off, etc.

    The single best investment to be made with a car like this is not tires, brakes or shocks - it’s driver education.

    This video makes the car look like a lot of fun, but the driver possesses skills 99% of us don’t, and the 812 won’t be nearly as forgiving as it appears here if you get yourself in trouble, which can happen in a flash.
     
  21. Frank_C

    Frank_C F1 Rookie
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    May 29, 2004
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    #71 Frank_C, Jul 7, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2022
    Speaking of HPDE. You know what many, if not every instructor has always told me about nannies Don’t turn them off. I don’t. The car is smarter than you are…..”

    Now that’s not to say turn them off during practice sessions to get to know your car (for us who belong to private tracks) but when driving hard and aggressively on track don’t turn them off.




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  22. Cocoloco

    Cocoloco Formula Junior

    Nov 26, 2013
    557
    #72 Cocoloco, Jul 9, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
    If you don't spin / twist you aren't pushing or learning very much - ask yourself if you want to leave the track with what you came with before you commit to tracking 800hp 4000lb 500k. Cheaper and safer to attend driving school even Ferrari weekend training.
    Personally think it is insane and doubt vast majority GTS owners achieve 7/10ths likely 130 mph.
    Speciale etc are playful friendly like a GT3 - 812 different level and takes experience.

    Tdf 812 owners talk a lot about how great their car is - rare video of them doing so vs Porsche GT3. No offense but it's extremely rare to see a capable driver in 812 Tdf at full pace.
     
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  23. Newjoint

    Newjoint Formula 3

    Jan 17, 2016
    1,066
    On track you do want the tires to squeal a bit but not too much, let’s you know you are on the edge of tire adhesion.
    For the street I went from Pirelli to Michelin- much better overall for warm weather but when the temp dips below 50 degrees F I’m looking to change to winter tires until spring


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  24. SeattleStew

    SeattleStew Formula Junior
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    Apr 10, 2020
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    I have 2 sets of wheels for this reason. I swap to winters in October and back to summers in April/May during my annual service.
     
  25. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    4,839
    France
    Agree with almost all here - except for one point, the driving of a mid-front engine is very different from the mid-rear engine. Even with the magic of the RWS the mid-front engined car has a natural trend to understeer, that needs to be countered with more weight transfer to the front... which means more braking in the corner, whereas with a mid-rear engine you could brake before turning and then make the turn at constant speed.
     

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