car design thread | Page 569 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    The Continental Mark IV—A Contest Of Wills
    June 29, 2022Leave a commentJim Farrell
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    The Continental Mark IV—A Contest Of Wills
    By Jim and Cheryl Farrell

    The Lincoln Continental Mark IV is a case study in how a car design can survive a major turf war. The disagreements that almost deep-sixed the Mark IV were between Semon “Bunkie” Knudsen, a former VP at GM who was hired by Henry Ford II as Ford’s new president in February 1968, and Lee Iacocca, who started at Ford in 1946 as a freshly-minted engineer, soon switched to sales, and rose to the top. By 1967, Iacocca was executive VP of Ford and thought he would be Ford’s next president. Knudsen was a patrician, and not a street fighter. Iacocca was a street fighter—he was good at getting down and dirty—and Knudsen wasn’t.

    Gene Bordinat, head of the Ford Design Department from 1961–80, was suave, an excellent politician and an impeccable dresser. HFII once described him as an accomplished “brown-noser.” As far as design was concerned, Bordinat and Iacocca were two peas in a pod. They both liked big slabsided cars with stand-up grilles and fenders that were parallel to the ground.

    Designer Wes Dahlberg came to Ford in 1947, four months before Bordinat. Dahlberg worked mostly in the International Studio designing Fords for Canada and the European markets. His car designs were generally smaller and more rounded; they were typically European. To say the obvious, Bordinat and Dahlberg didn’t agree. In 1958, Bordinat engineered Dahlberg’s reassignment as head of Ford’s design studio in Cologne, Germany.

    Dahlberg loved his European assignment, but was rotated back to Dearborn in 1967, where he was assigned as an executive designer in Don DeLaRossa’s Corporate Projects studio. Bordinat and DeLaRossa asked him to design a Mark IV proposal—only it was a year before the Mark IV design was due to even begin. Designers assigned to Dahlberg Mark IV project were Jim Arnold (manager), Dean Beck, Dick Blair and Bob Hackett. They came to see their Mark IV assignment as busy work. Nevertheless, they designed their Mark IV with rounded sides and a more European flair. On the rare occasions Bordinat or DeLaRossa reviewed Dahlberg’s designs, Dahlberg would disappear, leaving the other studio designers not really knowing what to do.

    When Knudsen came to Ford, he felt he got to select the designs he liked. Since that had previously been Iacocca’ s job, it didn’t take long to make getting rid of Knudsen a priority. Iacocca also kept picking the designs he wanted even after Knudsen had already expressed his preference. To try to tamp down their differences, Bordinat had different designs prepared for Knudsen and Iacooca, which created more problems.

    Knudsen spent a lot of time at the Design Center. He usually started his day there, even before most employees arrived for work. Master modeler John Cecil was assigned to Dahlberg’s end of the studio, and he also got to work early. One morning Cecil was in the break room making coffee when someone came in and asked if anyone was there. Cecil said he was in the back making coffee. The stranger asked if he could have a cup. Cecil said sure, and to come on back. Knudsen was new, and Cecil didn’t know who he was until he introduced himself. Soon, however, Knudsen had Cecil showing him all the cars being designed in that part of the studio. When Knudsen came to Dahlberg’s Mark IV, he fell in love with it, and decided on the spot it was going to be the next Mark IV—as is.

    When he got to work that morning, Bordinat was told Knudsen was already in the building, so he took off running trying to find him. When Bordinat found Knudsen he was out of breath. Knudsen immediately told Bordinat he loved the Mark IV he’d been looking at—and he picked it for production with no changes. A winded Bordinat stammered that Dahlberg’s design wasn’t much, and he tried to change Knudsen’s mind, telling him there was a far better design at the other end of the studio. By then, Knudsen had dug in his heels, and left the studio with Bordinat running after him trying to tell him he’d made a big mistake. Over the next few days, every time Bordinat ordered Dahlberg’s Mark IV changed even slightly, Knudsen made him restore the car the way he had approved it for production.

    The Mark IV at the other end of the Corporate Projects studio was not very far along, but Bordinat insisted it be completed as quickly as possible. The designers of the second Mark IV proposal were Ron Perry, Steve Sherer and Fritz Mayhew. Their design was based on a sketch prepared by Mayhew. When their design was farther along, Iacocca threw his support behind the second Mark IV. Dahlberg and Arnold were reassigned to the Interior studio, where as luck would have it, he and Arnold designed the Mark IV’s interior. According to DeLaRossa, Bordinat had a sixth sense that Knudsen wouldn’t be at Ford very long. And if Knudsen left soon enough, Iacocca and Bordinat planned to switch Mark IVs. Knudsen stayed past the point of no return, and Dahlberg’s car became the production Mark IV. Ironically, Dahlberg’s Mark IV also became the ultimate personal luxury car of the 1970s.

    The Mark IV wasn’t the only disagreement between Iacocca and Knudsen, but it meant open warfare. In the end, HFII was forced to fire Knudsen in September 1969, after Iacocca told him (HFII) it was either him or me—and 12 other executives who all were prepared to resign if Knudsen stayed and Iacocca left.

    Photos: Ford Design

    Continental Mark IV
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    Continental Mark IV Alternate
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  2. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    Always liked the MK III better. Never forget the French Connection with one of the MKIII's getting torn apart. A classic car and movie. The later cars always looked cheaper to me.
     
  3. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I'm amazed at the extra backlight height added to the March example. Maybe visibility complaints?

    Also, looks like the March example simplified the rear bumper stamping for production.

     
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  4. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Not only the backlight, but the entire roof is taller.Check the depth of the side glass. Maybe 'oscar' wouldn't fit.:rolleyes:
    https://www.autotrader.com/car-news/oscar-gms-metal-mannequin-helps-develop-comfortable-cars-111265

    There were on occasion a designer would take a hammer and pound the 'hard point' down to get the correct 'look'. We usually got caught by the engineers later.:eek:
     
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  5. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    The one offs are closer to art. But still, they are created by a team within a corporation, based on an industrialized platform. Not quite pure art.
     
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  6. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Hyundai Ioniq 6 Revealed As Jaw-Dropping Electric Car To Take On Model 3

    Hyundai
    BY TUSHAR MEHTA/JUNE 28, 2022 7:34 PM EDT
    Electric vehicles will be indispensable in the future of mobility, and almost every car company has a few EV models planned to keep themselves firmly planted in the market. Hyundai, one of the largest car manufacturers in the world, has also been geared up in anticipation of the upcoming EV revolution. In 2021, the automaker announced its all-electric IONIQ series with a promise to launch 23 electric vehicles by 2025. Today, the company has unveiled its second vehicle in the series — the IONIQ 6 — with a strikingly aerodynamic exterior and plush interiors that will shame leaders in the segment, including Tesla.

    The Hyundai IONIQ 6 is based on the same Electric Global Modular Platform (E-GMP) platform that forms the basis of all the future electric vehicles under the Hyundai and Kia brands. The Korean-origin carmaker does not reveal specifics about the drivetrain's range or power output of the drivetrain, but we can expect it to meet — if not beat — the 300-mile range of the IONIQ 5.

    The 'Prophecy' comes true


    Hyundai
    Hyundai is touting the "aerodynamically sculpted" design that allows it to achieve a more streamlined aesthetic and a low drag coefficient of 0.21. The design is reminiscent of Hyundai's "Prophecy" concept unveiled in 2020. The company heralds this launch as the beginning of a new era and claims to have worked on a design with "clean, simpler lines." Buyers will have the option to choose from 64 different colors along with six dual-tone themes for the exterior.


    Hyundai also claims the IONIQ 6 has a "cocoon-like interior," and most of the controls appear to be electronic and positioned on the multi-information display as well as the entertainment unit in the center. The company also advertises the use of sustainable materials inside the cabin, including options between recycled PET fabric and eco-process leather for the seats based on the trim, a recycled fishing net carpet, and TPO skin for the dashboard. In addition, the paints used on the doors are also obtained from recycled vegetable oils.

    Pricing and availability to be announced in July


    Hyundai
    Additionally, Hyundai uses immersive ambient lighting inside the IONIQ 6 to set the mood right for a drive at night. The steering also has four LEDs that can be used to notify you visually without seizing your attention away from the road. Based on the terminology used by Hyundai, we can expect some of the upcoming coupes to follow the streamlined design. For the tail lights and the headlamps, the company uses its characteristic Parametric Pixel design with more than 700 tiny squares used in different parts of the body.


    Hyundai mentions that the IONIQ 6 will be limited to specific markets at launch, and we can be sure South Korea, the U.S., and the U.K. will be among them. The world premiere is set for July 2022, and Hyundai will showcase the design using 3D billboards in Seoul, London, and New York. There is no information on pricing, but the IONIQ 6 can be expected to surpass the approximately $45,000 price tag of the predecessor.



    Read More: https://www.slashgear.com/910950/hyundai-ioniq-6-revealed-as-jaw-dropping-electric-car-to-take-on-model-3/?utm_campaign=clip
     
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  7. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mercedes claims bragging rights!

     
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  8. bitzman

    bitzman F1 Rookie
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    ONE MAN"S OPINION
    DESIGN CRITIQUE (Anybody disagree?)


    FRONT A bit disappointing in that it too much resembles the new Nissan Z. Also looks Porsche like. Black portions to the ends look unfinished

    probably air intakes, but don't they add to the drag?.

    SIDE Very aggressive side profile, high cut wheelwells, a lot like Porsche Panamera but smoother

    REAR Again Porsche like with full width tail lamps. The rear spoiler looks ponderous but is no doubt functional (Love to see it without the spoiler-might look like a '51 Chevy fastback) Carried over from the concept car but still jarring contrast is a pair of vertically-stacked LED rear foglights and a black rear diffuser.

    INTERIOR Way too disco for me. Maybe that will bring in the millennials? Hope some of the 64 color choices for altering interior lighting are more subdued.

    IN SUM: Porsche will have to try hard to distance their cars from this, especially when this could steal sales from the Taycan at $40,000 less.

    --------------------------------------------------

    The Koreans originally were thought of as always one step behind the Japanese in design but this car shows an aggressiveness that makes Toyota and Nissan look old fashioned. All they need to do is make the nose more exciting.

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  9. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  10. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula 3

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    ;)
     
  11. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    The upper rear spoiler looks a bit like an "oh crud, we need this" engineering afterthought rather than the intended design direction, but otherwise the exterior looks very tidy.

    Agreed on the interior, it's very disco. o_O Not a fan of that at all, I'd prefer a more conventional luxury interior with sculpted dashboards rather than the weirdly minimalist flat dashes with screens protruding up out of them. The touch screen fad reminds me of the days before we had large integrated dashboard screens and all the teenagers were spending all their money from part-time jobs on radio inserts with motorized screens. Here's the modernized product:


    Surely an OEM screen should look more integrated than that kind of bolt-on. Right? :(

    At least Porsche are still integrating dashboard screens and they look like they're supposed to be there:


    Maybe that explains some of the $40,000 difference... I don't know. :oops:

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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  12. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
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    @jm2 A question about terms...

    For the sake of discussion, there are three main aspect of auto design:

    1 The stance or track
    2 Bone lines
    3 Graphics

    Do you have another term to describe the overall proportions of a car listed in number 1? It's how a car sits on the ground, the length, width and height proportions, before the bone lines are developed.
     
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  13. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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    I would add:

    4 Silhouette (all views)
    5 Form Language
    6 Gesture
     
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  14. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
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    Could you describe "gesture" for the layman (i.e. me)?

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  15. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran
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  16. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  17. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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  18. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    #14219 jm2, Jul 2, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2022
    I believe Mr. 4Cam added to your original position.
    We all have different ways of describing design, but proportion is near the top of my personal list if not at the top.
    look at the 2 images. Donkey vs thoroughbred horse. Same basic elements/bones but proportions, shapes, create huge visual differences.
    I could argue that bone lines are added to the essential shape & proportions and can be added, subtracted and altered to change the design but not the basic proportions.
    Stance is critical in the position of the e]\wheels/tires. From the rear, you want the tire face to be flush with the body. The Hippo on the barstool look was accepted in the '50's but not much today.
    As 4cam points out, Silhouette is an important element, as I group that with proportion.
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    We could go on & on, but those are indeed the basics IMO.
     
  19. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  20. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I had one of those. Well, to be accurate, it was a community car. It was generally parked in one place with the key in the ignition and a five-gallon oil drum in the trunk. Whenever you filled it up with gas, you also had to top off the oil.
     
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  21. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    And now for some shameless self promotion.......3 min preview of things to come
     
  22. NeuroBeaker

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  23. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    Okay, even cooler then! So is it the Plymouth, or do ya go full Culpepper w/the extra punch in the face and dashes of chrome ...?

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    per Autoline clip, another entertaining Lucid angle at around 10:45 ...

     
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  24. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sounds like it had the rare Chrysler Power Bee Engine option!:D

     
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