Ferrari 412 rear shock absorbers

The 30+ year old oil hoses we have in our cars were also not designed for ethanol and as old as they are I am sure a new hose will be much safer.

The amount of fuel that reaches the oil is negligible and I doubt will pose a risk to the integrity of the rubber







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Good day 360modena2003,

This is true, but you are making an assumption of the old hose's composition. Who knows if the old hose is more, less, or even tolerant to small traces of Ethanol. Secondly, how do you know the new hose composition is better compared to the old hose material (when new of course)? Personally, I would rather use and source properly rated materials for replacements and minimize the risk. All I can tell you is that virtually all of the local (around 50+ of them) hose manufacturers would not make my oil lines because of the issues I mentioned. Given that they absolutely would not make the hoses for me unless they could find a suitable hose is enough for me is to listen to them, as they are the experts. However, do as you see fit and I only raise the issue to make you and others aware that there are details that go beyond whether a hose is simply oil rated or not. Ultimately, the hose material that was used met all of the criteria and is virtually impervious to any solvents, fuels, alcohols with its only weakness being that of brake fluid.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day ONSilver,

Understood and thanks for the clarification. That is quite disappointing and especially so if the fitting is unique and a replacement could not be found.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Hello Sam,

I am pretty sure ethanol was not even a consideration when these cars were built (much less designed), this is quite evident with all the fuel related rubbers; just look at any pump gasket in a 400/412 and even the newer 456!

If they didn't go through the trouble to provide ethanol resistent fuel delivery components, litte sense and highly unlikely they would for oil hoses.

But the ultimate proof is that countless Ferrari and other vintage car owners have had hydraulic hoses made and with no issues.



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Good day 360modena2003,

For whatever reason you want to justify your position on this, but without any real facts, but simply assumptions. This is perfectly fine, as you can do as you see fit. I was simply reflecting what was told to me by numerous businesses that work with and create hydraulic lines as their primary business and for me, they know a lot more about these hoses than I do. I have no intention on battling with you on this and I say again do as you want.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Hello,
I am the owner of a Ferrari 412 since 1999. The car is in very good condition but about a year ago the rear suspension became stiff, totally stiff! It was the two gas hydraulic accumulators that needed to be changed. The original parts were KONI-made parts and they are since a long time out of production. Ferrari 400 and 412 look if they have dubbel KONI shocks on each side in the rear. They aren't shocks they are hydraulic pistons and part of the self-leveling system.
No real suitable spare part was to be found on the market.
My own company, Carfinder International AB Stockholm Sweden, has a partner who since long ago has a workshop for Citroen, RR and Bentley. They got the old accumulators and made new accumulators from another supplier.
It has been impossible to get the pre-set nitrogen pressure in the original accumulators from KONI or from Ferrari or somebody else.
The preset is now done after the pressure in the hydraulic system and after road testing. It all works perfect!
The new accumulators have advantage: they can be refilled when in place.
Best regards,
Carfinder-42

 

Hello,

not worth the trouble, you can use widely available accumulator spheres for Mercedes Benz. It has been documented on this forum.

 

Let's not discard a proper substitute. The Mercedes alternative does require some adjustment that are not for the faint of heart. There is certainly a market for a plug and play solution made by an oleopneumatic suspension specialist.

 

The correct term is "hydro-pneumatic"

 

"Hydropneumatique" is the Citroën marketing term which they promoted with the "Traction" explaining this was the damping power of water and gas, but the truth is this system used oil and gas and was largely based on the work of Georges Messier and his Oleopneumatic suspension a.k.a "voiture sans ressort" (no spring car).

My father's -long gone- mechanic was sticking to the original name. We spent quite a lot of time fixing all the plumbing of the M100, which was fitted with an insane amount of such actuators: no electric motors, just pump and pistons everywhere down to the vents!

If you can find such a knowledgeable guy do not miss this opportunity and follow his advice the end result will be better than botchered mercedes spheres (even if this is a fine substitute).

 

Hi, i dont know if this is of interest to you but on reading this and the problem of finding the angled banjo insert, i had a look at a few uk based specialists. Have a look at trackformula.co.uk. I found some angled banjo inserts-
These were 10 mm banjo with a 20 degree angle in stainless to take AN-3 hose (1/8) with ptfe lining
Not sure if your size but they might have others or could get them. See what you think

 

You are a brave man running a 400, i believe spares are like rocking horse crap. I have been waiting 9 months for a 430 windscreen.
Was it a 10 mm x20 degree fitting you were looking for. Ref the banjo bolts, any decent machine shop could make those no problem

 

Hej There,
On a ferrari 412 (or 400) there is no shock absorbers. It is a very sophisticated system with double hydraulic pumps (looks like shocks) and double hydraulic accumulators. A system that can be found on Mercedes-Benz 560 and BMW cars from that time 1985-89 and further on. Rolls Roce used the system too.
The accumulators are like small coconuts in thick metal with rubber membrane in the middle. In the top end there is the systems hydraulic hose attach and in the lower part there is nitrogen gas loaded to a certain pre-set pressure. The system includes lines to the double hydraulic pumps and to the hydraulic pump at the right motor front cam.
The original accumulators were Koni-made and are not in the market anymore. Koni Holland can not even serve you with the pre-set pressure. When one or both accumulators have broken membranes or the preset pressures are all gone the leveling are going totally stiff. And the car can not be driven safely. Help was nowhere to be found!
Recently I have solved the problem with my own Ferrari 412. I took the accumulators to an old company near Stockholm, Sweden specialised in Citroen, Rolls Royce and Bentley and farming machines (!). The owner presented similar accumulators an build a new attachment on each of them and then refilled them with the nitrogen to the pressure which was set on the Koni ackumulators.
The pressure appeared to be to high. The car went stiff. We had to empty the accumulators and set lower pressure until the car worked perfect. It took some time and work.
You can write to me if you if you want your car to be as original as possible and with a perfect working selfleveling system.
Best regards
Carfinder -42