Leiters is OUT ! End of the V12? | Page 7 | FerrariChat
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Leiters is OUT ! End of the V12?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by JTSE30, Dec 20, 2021.

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  1. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 World Champ
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    #151 sixcarbs, Jul 15, 2022
    Paul, I have no problem with the 355. Please read my entire post.
     
  2. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #152 paulchua, Jul 15, 2022
    You mean this one right? ^^^

    Fun

    Let's go down each of your points,
    • LCDM ruined the marque =
      • Revenue and Sales all-time high seems a strange way to ruin a marque, 10 F1 world championships to boot?
    • He introduced the side shield option which were once reserved for factory team cars.
      • Sigh - guess you never heard of the TR models that had them as factory options BEFORE HIM.
    • He introduced limited edition cars. Ferrari never had limited editions before him, they just built as many cars as they could in a model run. Look at the 288 GTO and F40.
      • 288 Evoluzione?
      • F40 Competizone?
    • Yes, Luca sold Ferrari’s soul! He cared more about merchandising and branding.
      • Yeah, no Ferrari merchandise or branding before 1991 - like you really can say this with a straight face?
    • And it has now gone so far down the slippery slope, after doing away with the manual transmission, that most here accept an SUV and an electric.
      • Luca was in charge of Lambo/Mclaren too? Wow - never knew that!
    I wish some folks would just stop thinking the internet makes them experts in everything.
     
  3. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 World Champ
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    #153 sixcarbs, Jul 15, 2022
    Paul, I thought we were friends. We’re both Mondial lovers, although I don’t own one yet.

    I amnot an expert on anything here. I am just another car guy on the internet. The above is my opinion which I thought I articulated reasonably well.

    No, I can’t argue with Ferrari’s financials.

    Yes, I was aware of the 15 TR’s for Japan with the shields.

    I don’t consider the 288 Evo and the F40 Comp road cars by any reasonable definition.

    And I am not sure where you are going with the Lamborghini/McLaren comments. I couldn’t care less what they do.

    I thought I read, and correct me if I am wrong, that in the early 2000’s Ferrari was making more off the merchandise and licensing than the cars. I don’t think that was always the case.

    I stand by my initial non-expert Opinion.

    Agree to disagree.

    Cheers
     
    paulchua likes this.
  4. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    #154 F2003-GA, Jul 15, 2022
    https://www.euractiv.com/section/alternative-renewable-fuels/news/eu-deal-on-car-co2-standards-leaves-door-ajar-for-e-fuels/

    E - Fuels still not dead
     
  5. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #155 paulchua, Jul 15, 2022
    Thanks for your kind note. Sorry for a harsh retort.

    I'll leave you with this and hope you reconsider LDM's legacy = 10 Formula 1 Championships.

    Kindest regards.
     
  6. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    #156 JTSE30, Jul 15, 2022
    How about 'wishful thinking'...

    that link includes this text:

    The phrase “outside the scope of the fleet standards” is being interpreted by commentators as an allowance for specialty vehicles to use CO2 neutral fuels, such as ambulances and fire engines.

    Which would correlate to the "generation capacity" of such fuels, which will be very tiny...

    To whit, for jet aircraft...meaningless contribution:

    https://www.flightglobal.com/flight-international/does-efuel-production-have-a-bright-future-for-aerospace/148517.article
    On paper these plants have the capacity to deliver 50,000t of eFuel by 2026, which would be enough to meet the 0.5% PtL quota.
    Definition:
    These firms are the pathfinders on a journey to develop sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) from a route commonly known as Power-to-Liquids (PtL) to make eFuels or eKerosene.

    # # #

    https://www.petrolplaza.com/news/30367
    Our global plan is to produce over 8 billion litres a year of carbon neutral eFuels - enough to decarbonise 5 million vehicles.

    sounds good..until you read this part:
    At full operations, the HIF Tasmania facility is expected to produce up to 100 million litres per year of carbon neutral eFuels, reducing global CO2 emissions by approximately 260,000 tons per year, the equivalent of decarbonising 52,000 cars on the road today,” said Ignacio Hernandez explained, HIF Asia Pacific CEO

    Oops...going to be very very very difficult to scale...

    # # #
    https://www.goauto.com.au/news/general-news/fuels/tasmania-chosen-as-efuel-production-base/2022-07-11/88403.html
    The pilot plant is expected to produce around 130,000 litres of eFuels in 2022, after which its capacity will be expanded in two stages to around 55 million litres by 2024, and around 550 million litres by 2026.

    # # #

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/03/27/synthetic-fuels-wont-save-the-planet-so-dont-say-they-could/?sh=1b617efa69a4
    Putting this in perspective, the UK consumes 45-50 billion liters of fossil fuel a year, and in 2020, the USA consumed 123.49 billion gallons of finished motor gasoline in 2020, which is 467 billion liters. So Porsche’s Chile plant is going to supply scarcely 0.1% of what the US alone would require even by 2026. This is not the only company ramping up e-fuel production, but it is clearly a low-volume product aimed at specialist applications.

    # # #
     
  7. crinoid

    crinoid F1 Veteran
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    #157 crinoid, Jul 15, 2022
    Without LdM taking over Ferrari the odds are it wouldn’t be here, and if they had stuck to LdM’s plans for Ferrari they wouldn’t be making an FUV nor have gone public nor have increased production. They would have been making more money than ever while maintaining a bit more integrity. After LdM left they changed the business plan.
     
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  8. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    #158 F2003-GA, Jul 15, 2022
    E Fuels will be very expensive granted, but they're meant for a tiny tiny fraction of the market plus collectable sports cars
     
  9. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    #159 JTSE30, Jul 15, 2022
    Regardless of cost, production will never be anywhere close to what would be reasonable to rely on, that's the point my post.

    And, think of the "logistics" of "distribution" of a tiny amount of e-fuel to just where it is needed...impossible, in fact, if you read through the links I presented, the "plan" would be to 'blend' it with traditional gasoline so you would "never" be able to purchase e-fuel on its own...unless you are someone like Porsche who would want a pure version of e-fuel for a racing series....it's all a non sequitur
     
  10. F2003-GA

    F2003-GA F1 World Champ
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    #160 F2003-GA, Jul 15, 2022
    Let's wait and see how it plays out
     
  11. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    #161 JTSE30, Jul 15, 2022
    You might want to read these:
    https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2021_12_TE_e-fuels_cars_pollution.pdf
    https://theicct.org/e-fuels-eu-co2-standards-jun22/

    this is one of the silliest:
    https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/eu-lawmakers-back-mandatory-use-green-jet-fuel-2025-2022-07-07/
    Under the approved text, suppliers would be required to blend a minimum of 2% of sustainable aviation fuel (SAF) into their kerosene from 2025, rising to 85% in 2050 - more ambitious than the target of 63% by 2050 originally proposed by the Commission.

    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351376346_Potential_and_risks_of_hydrogen-based_e-fuels_in_climate_change_mitigation

    Trust me, it is a neat idea, but with currently available technology it goes nowhere noticeable, ever, reality will rise to the occasion and the futility of production will become readily apparent...meaning does not scale, hugely expensive, pipe dreams. Maybe some novel method of synthesizing e-fuels will become reality, until then...
     
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