Chairs and Flares (C&F) as an option never exsisted.... it was "Daytona seats" and/or "wider housing wheels with 7,5" Compagnolo rims" so you can also have original flares without Daytona seats, that was more popular in Europe.... regarding the options only Ferrari Classiche can confirm if they came with the car when left the factory or you have an original factory invoice of the car listing the options! With selling a car at this price level it would always make sence to offer the car with a Ferrari Classiche certificate.
No Dinos have "Daytona seats." "Daytona seats" on a Dino only refers to the centre cushion part of the seat which is in the "Daytona style" with the black inserts with punched holes. Daytona seats are bigger and a different shape to all Dino seats. The centre section from a Daytona seat will not fit a Dino seat either with the Daytona seats having more horizontal flutes. To be fair to the seller's description, they correctly describe the seats as Daytona style and having Daytona style inserts.
sure to be precise "seats of Daytona type", but everybody knowns here Ferrari didn`t put bigger seats from a Daytona into the Dino.....
Of course I'm not questioning your undoubted expertise on Dinos, but I don't think everybody here does know here that Ferrari didn't put the bigger seats from the Daytona into the Dino. Some will know but not everybody. "Daytona seats" means seats as from a Daytona and they are not. May I ask the source of the content of your production information letter for Dino #07826 sent to the consigners of the car which is posted in the BaT comments? To me, "Production information as far as known:" as you state in the letter, is not definitive and is ambiguous. Factory information, Factory invoices and the original Ferrari Official Supplying Dealer invoices are definitive, and if the source of your information is from the Factory/Original Supplying Dealer then it is best to state that in the interest of clarity.
Agree with herr Matthias - classiche has been avoided on 07826 - is there a better reason than they say 'just not easy'? 07826 did not even get the matthias report before sale. Driversource is professional to reveal all the important numbers to buyer, SilverArrow must be asked and they get angry then lied How does 07826 have the body marked parts 2865 when should be 2871. Showed 7 photos of wrong number 2865 on "the numbers match car" ! Also many things wrong with add, confusion, fake photos, photos of other 330 cars with V8. Why show 3 fuel pumps then install the wrong one? Fake to the buyer!
"MercuryKG7H Geeesh, One day I posted about the “peanut Gallery” on a Daytona sale, and got booted off for a week. Everyone was offended suppose it is now politically correct to mention the PG in public now." That bad behaviour is SilverArrow Seller who get angry and solves questons by name calling bidders to stop asking questions. So sad to see the actions of a Charlatan Remember that you can ask DriverSource anything
Funniest comment of all : Jul 28 at 6:56 PM OscarGT This author's likes: 141 I hear you on all the numbers matching evidence, but how do we know that the seller didn’t simply buy this car: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1993-ferrari-dino-tribute-delsol/ and then complete the project and relist it here as a real DINO!! might just be a del sol in disguise.
In general, if one were to already have a Ferrari Classiche certificate on their Dino, would having a Massini or Bartz report add anything regarding sale price? Thank you.
the car is matching no. as far as known means here, no information on the options of the car provided, because they are not known to me... but a Ferrari certificate would confirm what is advertised by the seller... from my point of view...
Silver Arrows also revealed all important numbers. Plenty of pix showing body number 2871 which is correct for chassis 07826. This car is fully matching numbers (chassis#, engine#, gearbox# and body#). And there appear to be more than 1'900 photos on the BaT Website. With this amount of photos it can easily happen that a few wrong pix may have been included. Body number 2865 is chassis number 07812 which is a 246 GTS U.S. in black with red interior, completed 19 February 1974 and delivered new to MCM Modern Classic Motors. Body number 2871 is chassis number 07826 which is a 246 GTS U.S. in amaranto with beige interior, completed 25 February 1974 and delivered new to MCM Modern Classic Motors. For sure in February 1974 both of these Dinos were sitting side by side at Scaglietti coachworks in Modena and it could have happened that a few panels from one Dino went into the other one and vice versa. You guys better study the circumstances and HOW these cars were hand-assembled at the time. Marcel Massini
Classiche Red Book confirms that main numbers are matching. Massini Report also contains the individual chronological history from day one onward. The factory cannot have that, they are an automobile manufacturer and seller, they are neither archivists nor historians nor detectives nor collectors of automobile history with data and photos. Two totally different things. The factory does not know what happened in the fifty years after they sold a car. In most cases they do not even know and cannot know where the car is today. A detailed chronological history report is about the life of the car after it left the main gate in Maranello. Was it sold? Where did it go to? Repainted? Raced? Crashed? Repaired? Cut into a Spider? Customised? Modified? Restored? By whom? Is there a 20 year gap in the history and if so, why? Stolen? Handgrenaded? All these things can be (should be!) of interest to a potential buyer. It is called due diligence or doing the homework. Marcel Massini
The seller, has sold some very high ticket items, and has a good reputation, I would say a very good rep. I once bought an inexpensive GT car from them, with "impeccable provenance, restored by famous masters of the marque". Yeah, right. The first day I drove the car upon receipt, the rear wheel went from what appeared to be normal rear camber, then suddenly spun out on the first turn, as the same rear wheel went to about 8 deg. of positive rear camber. Thoughts of VW beetle... My daughter whacked me on the head, fortunately she knew my style of driving so not concerned. It scared me s...tless, as not prepared for a snap roll of that kind at 30mph. The short of it, after a full, diff rebuild and all ancillary parts (U-joints were also shot, thus the spin) and a $15K repair, I voiced my complaints and the seller acquiesced to compensate with 50% of expenses. OK, I guess but not great considering the original 'flaming' reviews on the sales description. Then, replacing a front engine seal, I discovered that the crank bearing supports had 30ft.lbs of torque. By then, too late to file another issue. Bottom line, they never had seen the car, driven it, nor anything. Just a flip. Now, after innumerable other repairs, I love the car. Bottom line, I will NEVER buy another car from them. Period. Not even an Austin pedal car. Why sell this car at no reserve? Extremely odd, if you ask me. Caveat Emptor, this is big money for a Dino, huge money, never seen before money, at least in public. Regards, Alberto
To be fair(?), I think that’s how majority of used car sales businesses operate and always has, but as you say, Caveat Emptor. Not saying this is one, but there’s always been cases in which auction results (real or not) have been used in attempt to manipulate perceived (future) value of a specific car or the “market” of identical/similar ones. Sad(der) thing is to see the general public/peanut gallery rarely, if ever, really questioning the “results”, no matter how odd or unrealistic they may appear. They just ooh and aah about them briefly before moving on to the next shiny object placed in front of them, but as the saying goes “That’s entertainment !”
...and as you well know a Classiche Red Book by stating if they are the original main components or if they have been replaced, also confirms if the main numbers are not matching, even though the tipo of the main components must be correct/matching to qualify for Classiche Red Book Certification.
^^^^^^This^^^^^^ ^^^^^^And this^^^^^^ It bears repeating that BaT results are not verified. The very large bidding increments in this auction are a bit unusual. And the seller made a disparaging remark about Fchat. The nerve!
What’s so odd about it? The car is on consignment, the owner wants it sold, and they obviously also believe in the car standing up to scrutiny by real buyers and trusts the market will reflect the quality in the final bid. The dealer represents the car no reserve to indicate that unlike many other online auctions, it’s not for advertising or looking to tempt guys wondering if they’re wasting time bidding on a car with an unrealistic number attached. There are dozens of cars at RM, Bonhams, etc all with “no reserve” and nobody here is calling those suspect. All seems much ado about nothing…
Just like majority of all auction results and why would one specializing in online venue be any different ? People just (choose or want to) believe what the “house(s)” report. Or how many here can prove they’ve had full access to any and all accounting/books at one or more “house(s)” and/or their venues ?
Again, not saying it’s a case here, but I for one, could easily imagine a seller setting up “no reserve” listing (to lure interest), but arranging a shill to place a high enough bid to prevent any unexpectedly low outcome. How much exposure can one expect for $5K worth of marketing spending these days ? Or perhaps I’m just too suspicious by nature and don’t subscribe to buying or selling much through auctions. But then again, I’m not into gambling either and I’ve always had to work too hard for my money to spend it carelessly/foolishly.
Yes Joe, you are right even Bonhams sells at "no reserve", but not this car on BaT. Then why not at PB, in a few weeks? With a Reserve? Possibly, more realistic results, and not quite what you wished for? At least at PB, bidders are visible, whereas on BaT, all it takes is credit card. At PB, you need a BANK REFERENCE. Besides, how 100% are you guaranteed it will get sold, (it will) and mostly paid for? Impossible, unless you are the buyer and post it here for us all to drool, or opine...whatever. Would you? Perfect set up for monkey business, I mean, you really think every auction, from the moment they were invented, in 600 or so B.C. when slaves and women were auctioned off, all were prim and proper, no secret handshakes, or a bit of sleigh of the hand? Really? You really believe "real buyers and trusts (sic) the market will reflect the quality in the final bid" ? I am a bit surprised after your membership to f-chat since'04, and having seen all sorts and kind, possibly not the market though. Steven Robertson, a respected member of f-chat gets lambasted and flagged as non-constructive, by various, including the seller, and including a Mr. B. Noon / et al. for his comments, just because he recently joined? So what? I can join today and buy 400 cars in one week on BaT. Does that make me credible, or bags of $$$? Come on, a friend says: I got this real cool / not so cool, item on sale, how about a slight bit of a shove, wink wink, nudge nudge, no harm done, anyhow you will not buy it. Right. Regards, Alberto
Timo you forgot, " that has got to be the prettiest car ever"...lick and drool And a few hundreds of inane comments from the Peanut Gallery. Can you believe there's a guy on BaT that has more than 50,000 comments? No life? Regards, Alberto PS. Marcel Massani? Who is that?
Nothing , absolutely nothing is believable anymore. Everything is subject to malarky. Integrity is ruined for those with integrity. Even fact checkers are subject to racketeering.. Really really ...Sucks...
