"The Lamborghini Miura" by Simon Kidston

First off - I don't have any skin in the game with Horton's or any other dealer. I'm not here to defend anyone. I've simply been a customer of Horton's and countless other sellers. I am speaking from my point of view and observations of the automotive book industry. I understand & agree with 'some' comments I've read over time (but not all) about Horton's prices. I have purchased several books new from Ben Horton, and have always been happy with the excellent service and extensive knowledge provided, and ok with the prices - but I have only purchased new titles from Horton's, thus avoiding secondary and out of print high prices. By the way, in contradiction to trashidelek!'s statement (above post #474)...I am not "rich," and don't consider myself "very stupid." But I might be a little crazy...

Horton's was also only one of just three sellers who were selling the Figoni Alfa Romeo book I wanted. Good luck finding it anywhere else since there were only three sellers authorized, and who actually had this book when new.

In addition...I've seen Horton's at many events, and have seen numerous new and old books available, much more so than often available from many "conventional booksellers," and plenty of non-rich people buying from them. They are also a full time business as opposed to many book sellers who claim to be more, but are only part time - on the side dealers, and many without great inventory. So, I'm a little confused as to why someone would call them just a cataloging service?

 

Total agreement with what you say, @Lusso123. With the Miura book and the Jota Edition, Horton is going over the top. But apart from that it is a very good address to buy books, either online or by meeting them at car events. I have been doing both for more than 20 years now. No complaint whatsoever.

And they even offer very good bargains! I bought the limited edition of Nathan Beehl's BB book from them last year at a very, very good price. And just look at the sound price for which they are offering OttoVu at the moment, far below offers by other bookdealers (at the moment of writing this).

 

Believe me, I am not trying to call out any fellow car enthusiast. We're all in this "sickness" together. The point I am trying to make is that Horton's is almost always the most expensive option, particularly with out-of-print books. If you feel that their service, storefront operational base, or overall inventory size offer fair value for the additional money, then so be it. My experience with them has been that 9 times out of 10, you can give up some of these intangibles, but still have a comparable book for less money, by going elsewhere.

 

OK, yes I get it, and am very well aware of Horton's prices. As mentioned I have only bought several new books from them, and for the most part, I am always looking for a good deal/lowest price etc. I did this with new Lola T70 book, bought somewhere on the internet at the lowest price, but I had to wait awhile to receive it. Buying books often brings out my cheapskate side, which occasionally backfires on me. I certainly do know there are many sources to buy from, which I have done and continue to do. There are only a handful of sellers in various markets that I will never deal with, but Horton's is not one of them.

 

There is no hard and fast rule when it comes to bookshops I find.

Many times I have found both bargains and overpriced books advertised by the same store or online seller.

That, I have found, is no different when it comes to Horton's.

 

I guess it should be said that there is also a real difference in the situations between new and out-of-print books. For very limited edition new books (like the Joseph Figoni Alfa Romeo book mentioned above), short of differences in shipping charges, there is usually next to nothing to distinguish between the various seller options available.

For out-of-print books, things can be very different. Horton's is often the priciest option, but a little due diligence or patience will often yield results. As with a lot of things, people have different priorities. If near instant gratification and one-stop shopping are your thing, Horton's, Motors Mania, etc. will look after you very well, at a price. Otherwise, there are many other options and prices can vary significantly.

 

In an effort to "beat a dead horse to death" and (possibly) annoy as many people as possible, might I offer up a personal example to illustrate the point I was trying to make regarding Horton's and out of print books?

I had been looking for a signed copy of Mike Hawthorn's book Challenge Me the Race. Horton's has one. But, being Horton's, they want GBP 1250 for it. I thought about just shutting up about it, buying what I want, and being done with it. Problem is, I knew that likely sooner, rather than later, something else would come up and I would end up regretting it. Sure enough, this past month a copy in better, not worse, condition popped up on eBay and I promptly won in for GBP 225, or a mere 18% of what Horton's is asking.

As I have been at pains to state, I do not think that Ben Horton is a bad guy. I do, however, think his prices for OUT OF PRINT BOOKS (i.e. not new publications) is completely out of touch with what the reality is anywhere else.
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First editions can command steep premiums. As do pristine dustjackets.

 

That doesn't have any nexus with this example. All editions of this particular book have minimal value in and of themselves. They were, in effect, multiple printings during 1958. None are especially rare and usually go for around GBP 25-35. The dust jacket on the eBay book is actually in better condition that the Horton's book, which is torn and appears to have some mild foxing or toning. The real value here is the signatures, which are scarce, so the comparison between the Horton's and eBay books is absolutely valid.

 

I’m sure you’re right, I just noticed that the Hortons copy was advertised as first edition, and the ebay copy was advertised as second edition.
Personally I couldn’t care about any signature.

 

I see examples like that on a regular basis, with other bookshops, not just Hortons.

Here's one...

https://www.automotobookshop.com.au/targa-florio-the-ferrari-and-lancia-years-1948-1954-brooklands-books/

I bought this book from my local second hand motoring bookshop for AUS$18 while another shop in another part of the country wants AUS$395.

I called up the expensive shop, both were in mint condition, both not signed- identical books.

 

There where a large number of the Hawthorn, Collins’s and Fangio books put onto the market in Uk in the early days of eBay with forged signatures, buyer beware. Most of the genuine ones come out of collections and have the story of how, when and where obtained in period very rarely do real ones show up in op shops, random eBay sellers etc, can happen like the odd Rembrandt but not at the frequency of one or two every 6 months.

 

You bring up a good point. All of the Brooklands titles were compilations of reprinted magazine articles that originally sold for around USD 30. These initially inexpensive books, printed in relatively limited numbers (of which most automotive books are), are particularly vulnerable to what I consider to be "ambitious" pricing when they go out of print. Even when this occurs, there are always some sellers that don't buy into the idea that what was a fairly unremarkable $30 book just a few years ago is now a $300+ book, even if that usually means the book goes unsold for a very long time.

 

I definitely agree, but fake signatures can turn up in all sorts of places. Questionable items are occasionally offered by RM, Bonhams, Gooding, Morry Barmak, etc. On the other hand, completely credible items do turn up on eBay or with ordinary private sellers. In addition, as things get sold and resold, what was once an eBay item routinely becomes a "high end" seller item, or vice versa. Provenance only carries you so far, and all of the usual authentication considerations apply regardless of who the seller is.

 

To avoid all of this, I go for new ‘poor man’s’ editions.

 

So do I, you can keep your over the top leather bound ultra limited editions, I'll stick with the standard version (unless the limited editions give you extra information or chapters).

 

I go for the limited every time ! Matures like a good wine.

 

I have no idea what that means but if you think so.

I'm happy there are buyers of the limited edition books, it offsets the cost of the standard versions.

 

Rosey when in Newcastle please come and visit my library and I will educate you!
I have numerous leather editions collected over the years all but one purchased second hand. The only one purchased new was still available from publisher and copies of the standard edition where consistently selling for more than the leather edition new so it was a no brainer.

Yes the leather editions are a major profit driver for the publisher and this is no different for cars, boats, planes anything that can be upgraded however because of that you should not exclude looking out for ones when they become available at a reasonable price and then do so.

A proper bound leather book by a professional book binder such as Ludlow’s is a joy to have and hold, the tactile feel of leather, the extra weight, sturdiness, embossed guiding, quality paper, marbled font pieces , ribbed spine can not be appreciated until you hold one.

David

 

Happy to visit your library David, thanks for the invitation.

I have nothing against the look and feel of a leather bound book, I just refuse to pay on average twice the price for one brand new at list price over a standard edition.

If you can find them second hand at a reasonable or cheaper price than the standard edition then absolutely go for it.

 

And then, there are the works of almost otherworldly art that this place (Legatoria Codina in Milan) turns out.

 

I might sell my Miura book. Number 365 with Register or exchange against Ferrari brochures or littérature
Please DM me if you are interested



Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant FerrariChat

 

Nice to see Nathan's La Nascita getting a look in.

 

Agree, his books are quality additions to any collection.

 

See my DM. And thank you for returning to the core subject of this thread, which is actually the Miura book by Simon Kidston!