But not all in a good way.... Had this fitted: https://imgur.com/8m0YQU3 Cat-Back in titanium so just replaced the muffler and tips. Good bits: Massively lighter and fitted better brackets at the same time. Ferrari garage said the huge difference in weight will aid the longevity of the whole set-up and the headers will be less stressed There is a little bit of F1 scream at the top end but not that loud The car seems noticeably faster - might be psychological (the car is not louder in any way) The car is way, way smoother - no jerkling. It is like the previous car was a Turbo and the turbo has been removed. I was not expecting that. The whole driving dynamics is transformational by a resonable percentage - it seems.... Bad Bit: As the valves have gone so the sudden opening BRUUUUUURRRRRRRPPPP sound has gone. I am now a bit confused. I had already booked in a day next week to replace old one back if I didnt like it. At least I have the bracket. Real quandary - it still sounds good, the car is MUCH better and it is healthier for the car, and my pocket but I miss that sounds at 3500 revs. I thijnk a Header/Manifold change would make it really scream and save further weight but I do not NEED to so it seems a bit of a step too far. p.s. excuse the typos
Changing the manifold is not going to change the tone much- i swapped the oem manifolds for the Capristo ones, you would struggle to notice any change. Does this new setup have expansion brackets ? Look on Capristo.de web site for some good pics of the setup
I have plans to change my entire exhaust system, but I started with the headers which made the car MUCH louder because the OEM headers have the precats in them. You haven't increased the airflow as I can tell. I'm not familiar with those mufflers you put on. I have a box with the Sport mufflers from Tubi waiting to be installed, similar concept I guess, but they sit low in the engine bay and reduce engine heat. However, changing out the headers really increased the sound volume. A cold start now in my garage is almost too loud for my ears. I can't see how you increased the speed because you haven't addressed the air flow. Also, you don't want to go valveless if you want low end torque. The car will pull slower from the start because torque requires some flow restriction at low RPM's. Over 4000 rpm then you want maximum air scaveging, thus why the valves open up. This is when you should hear an F1 sound. Over 4000 rpm, then a straight pipe back produces the very best air flow and sound. Here is a straight pipe with Fabspeed headers. https://www.instagram.com/reel/CPGITkgJm02/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link Image Unavailable, Please Login
Capristo headers wouldn't change the volume that much because they are 4-2-1 headers vs. a 4-1 configuration. 4-2-1 is what you want for a punchier mid-range powerband daily driver. 4-1 headers, like Fabspeed, are more suited for the track and produce a much louder noise than a 4-2-1. I went with a 4-1 configuration and I can assure you, they are very much louder as there is less air flow restriction than a 4-2-1.
Interesting. So I think what I really want is just to add 10 -20% of loudness of the stock exhaust - that will do me. That would mean a bit more sounds before the valves open and that great deep Bruurrrrp sound even louder. Still the new bracket and the huge saving in weight is a good thing. The car feels smoother from the get go, so to me it feels the torque is achievable lower. It also 'feels' faster but that might be the smoothness. I can't work it out. The cats and standard header is there. I assume is the flow through those two boxes that has improved things. Image Unavailable, Please Login
I could so with diagrams - I am confused! I just want a louder stock sound, so still valved. I tried the hose pulling things but it then sounded a bit cheap and bellowy.
I've not seen that type of exhaust before, it looks like a standard x-pipe then has a flow restriction right after the bend? However, maybe its developing more lower end torque than OEM, thus the increase in smoothness? Going lighter always helps and the titanium has a nice resonance to it compared to stainless steel, but I don't think this kind of configuration does much for sound because you still have the pre-cats on your manifolds and the full cat cans. You need to get rid of one or the other in order to increase air flow. Once the valves open up, the mufflers are completely by-passed though there can be some residual resonance from them. I have the Capristo brackets on mine. They make a racket and I'll get rid of them as soon as I have my sport exhaust installed. I hate them. Change out your manifolds to Fabspeed or another 4-1 configuration and you'll hear a dramatic difference in sound. Here is a video of my car after changing the headers only, everything else is stock OEM. Its not the ultimate sound I'd like, F1, but I'm unwilling to go straight pipe on my car. It would be too loud in a Spider.
Ah ok... so keeping everything stock but changing the manifold keeps the same tone and valve-open sound - just louder? So, I need to remove the OEM manifold in my car and get a 4-1 manifold - what does that actually mean?
It depends on what kind of sound you want, the power band you want and your end game. 4-1 headers are designed so that all 4 exhaust pipes merge into one. In most dyno tests, this produces the most top end power since it usually offers the best flow characteristics for the engine at high engine speeds. 4-1 headers usually move the power band up, which makes the bottom of the RPM band feel a bit weak and the “seat of the pants” feel might not be as strong as a 4-2-1 header, thus why you keep your system with valves active in order to restrict airflow in the lower power bands thus producing more torque than valveless and keeping most of the advantages of a 4-2-1. The 4-1 headers usually have less back-pressure than the 4-2-1 header and 4-1 headers are louder at the upper range of the RPM scale. Thus, the need to keep your valves closed at lower RPM's to utilize higher torque. Most headers that are street legal or CARB legal are usually of the 4-2-1 design. It all depends on your driving style. If you spend most of your time above 4,000 RPM, the 4-1 headers will give you louder sound and more power. If you spend most of your time below 4,000 RPM, then you'll typically have more low end torque with a 4-2-1 header, but not much different than OEM manifolds which are 4-2-1's. The only advantage I see with Capristo headers is that they are catless, thus they do offer a higher air flow than OEM but the powerband they operate in is similar to the OEM's. I don't know if this is helpful or not. It all depends on your driving needs and your sound wants.
Well, I was happy with the bit of noise the stock system had before 3500 revs and delighted with the noise when the valves open. I want to keep exactly that - just louder across the whole range.
Then all you needed was a $400 valve controller. You can keep the valves open, like at cold startup through the entire rev range. http://www.forzacomponenti.com/modelb4.html
That allows to me to have more noise at start, idle and up to the valves are usually open but it won;t make the post-valve open noise any louder or are you saying that I need this AND the 4-1 manifolds?
Correct, it won't make the car any louder than normal after the valves are naturally open, but what it does is keep the valves open whenever you go below 4,000 rpm, which keeps the car louder than normal with closed valves. Right now, the car closes the valves below 4,000 which is why it sounds different under 4,000 rpm. If you like the OEM sound with the valves open, like at cold start and above 4,000 rpm, then the valve controller is what you want. If you want to go faster or have a car louder than OEM, you need to do 1 of 3 things or all three for ultimate sound, 1. replace the headers with a 4-1 header, 2. remove the CAT cans, 3. replace the header with 4-1 header, remove cats and go straight pipe (no muffler). If you do all three, you'll get an F1 sound that is loud as hell like in the link I gave you. Most people cannot tolerate option 3. Option 3 will attract both wanted and unwanted attention (i.e. police).
Question for you...did you reset your battery after doing the swap? If so, that could account for why the car feels better. I don't know if this is true or just placebo effect, but every time I reset my battering and go through the proper warming up procedure thereafter, the cars feels smoother, stronger. Also, my view of the valves vs. valve-less exhaust debate is the same as Kent's. My scud started its life with me with the stock system and power felt great at both low and high rpm's, but it was in rickety shape (dust coming out, some cracked welds, etc...), was a crazy heat sink, and could have doubled as a boat anchor. So I went to a valve-less titanium exhaust. It weighed nothing, dissipated heat crazy fast, sounded great and just screamed at WOT, but I couldn't shake the feeling some low-end torque had been sacrificed. Top-end pull didn't feel that different because when actuated the valves effectively make the system a "straight through" set up. But eventually I tired of the "always loud/can't talk on the phone/can't hear the already crappy radio" situation so I bought a used valved Kline system. I am EXTREMELY pleased with it and can definitely feel some low down grunt restored. Plus, I guess I'm getting old but I just like the fact that it can be both civilized and extreme depending on my mood and how I drive. Also, for some reason, the car feels "happier" with the valves. I can't prove this, but shifts seem smoother, power delivery seems smoother, and car just drives better overall, almost like the engine/tcu mapping is optimized for an oem-ish valved set up. Just my two cents! By the way, can't say enough good things about the quality/sound of the Kline. Its absolutely top notch. On my scud at least if you are looking for super load/insane, you will be disappointed. But if you are looking for less heat/weight, more durability than stock, and just a little more volume, its perfect.
"but shifts seem smoother, power delivery seems smoother, and car just drives better overall," Yeah, this is how my car is, which is why i am confused. So looks like i am going back to stock system and then will go down the aforementioned routes.
As a ferrari has a flat plane crank you can use a 4 into 1 manifold, i put the Capristo manifold on mine with the rest being the oem equipment, cannot say i noticed any difference from inside the car. Only fitted to avoid the posability of manifold pre cat failure.
Yeah, that is likely the most important considerationi, of course. The specialist fitters (supercar specialists) said the exhaust was well made and the new suspension brackets were good and convinced the lightness will be fine for the OEM manifilds - relatively speaking. I will give it a week and then make up my mind., At least I have the better brackets fitter and can sell on the system as it is excellent.
Another option is to swap in some challenge headers. They are just stock but without pre-cats, so safer for the engine and maybe 10-15% louder.
It is rare for my capristo manifolds to give a code, you need to let it tick over for a couple minutes for the exhaust to heat up
Well, I did a big run to Brands Hatch - all as usual. On the way back home, well, as soon as I started the car, the whole exhaust sound had changed. Much deeper, much louder, more bass but also more blowy. Power and responsiveness was the same. My first thought was that some sort of hose had come off or some tube had come loose or a small hole. Didn't change all the way home - it is actually a good overall sound but worried something is amiss. Perhaps a misfitting a few days ago? I suppose there it no chance the titanium tubing suddenly bedded in? Strange. Will get it looked at, well, will call up the specialists first. The was otherwise absolutely fine - better than fine.
Interesting, I took out the secondary cats on a V8 AMG Benz a few years back for more sound and on start up I was disappointed the sound had hardly changed. But after several drives over a week or so the extra V8 sound started arriving. Was then more than happy. I was told the ECU's take time and a few cycles to adjust to the increased exhaust flow and the tune is altered to suit. Don't know if that's true but it went from normal to louder over that period.
