Question on Value

Question on Value: Question My 39 year old son recently passed away. He lived in St Louis. He has a 1985 Ferrari Mondial. It had what I believe he said was a timing belt issue. He never fixed it and I believe it has been sitting in his garage for around 6 years. I am wondering if someone can help me with determining a value on it.

 

Karen,
First, I'm sorry for your loss. The challenge with determining value for this car is that without an idea of mileage or vehicle condition, its really hard to understand what the vehicle is worth. Even pics would give an idea of starting point.

At one end, if it was a running and driving car, an 83-85 QV is probably the 2nd least valued of the 4 Mondial iterations, cheapest being the 08-82 Mondial 8 (with the lowest performance and oldest model) through the 83-95 QV, to the Mondial 3.2 and finally the most valued Mondial T (which had a more modern longitudinally mounted 3.4L engine). A fair price is probably in the 40K-60K range for these vehicles. Your car, if it had no issues, is probably closer to 40K.

As a parts car on the other end of the spectrum, I could see a car being worth $20-25K to someone willing to part it out. This is assuming that the interior/body panels are in decent condition. The engine+transmission itself, as a block to be rebuilt, is worth $13-15K. I bought an 83 QV coupe with a water pump issue but driveable for $33K last year including shipping to my house. I paid a little more than necessary but the interior was decent enough (complete), the interior was nice (something I don't have the skills to redo myself), and the car was from SoCal so I could have a friend check it to make sure it wasn't a rust bucket. Also, when my friend came out to inspect the car in the country, he lost a tie rod end on his Acura. Those guys spent a few hours dragging his car back to their workshop, threw it on the lift, got him a replacement part and then refused to take any money for that assistance. They did a solid for my friiend and you don't nickel and dime people like that. Anyway, I sold the engine for $13K + freight and am converting it to EV now (with a brand new Tesla's worth of parts -- not a cost effective project by any means) for fun. If it was a cabriolet, I could imagine the condition of the roof would have a fairly decent impact on the vehicle's price as rebuilding that can be pricey.

My best "finger in the air guess" is $20-30K. It's probably NOT worth less than $20K but I think you'd have to find the right buyer to pay that much more over $30K.

If you had some pics or any materials on exactly what was wrong, consider putting it up on Bringatrailer or some other similar website and see who comes a calling.
Good luck and I'm sorry again for your loss.
Regards,
-g

 

Do you have any pictures? Is it a coupe version? with a hard top, not cabriolet meaning rag top........Other things to consider.......have there been modifications to the car? Everything original will increase its value. Changes decrease the value.....

 

Sry for your loss, pics, mileage, any records you can share will go a long way. Does it currently run? That said, best not to try starting it with the timing belt issue.

 

Sorry for your loss!

 

No, it has been sitting for 6 years. We live in Indianapolis and he lived in St Louis. I’ll get pictures the next time I go. But no modifications have been made to it. It is a hardtop.

 

No, it does not run. I’ll get mileage and photos next time I go. I got a call from some guy who offered $2000. I thought that sounded awfully low. He said it would need a new engine??

 

thank you

 

I’ll have to get photos and mileage the next time we go to St Louis. It is a hardtop and has been sitting for 6 years. No modifications.

 

In today's market, a civic would probably go for $2k in similar condition. If the car is mostly complete, the lowballer needs to add a zero at a minimum. If someone paid $20k, they'd still make a profit parting it out. You'd get more from a buyer who wants to get it back on the road though.

 

Gunn is closer to the value with the limited info thus far. Don’t sell for anything that’s not 5 figures.

 

I think the car is worth $10k as a lowballer/reseller outcome. The market is thin for cars that don't run.

A good handyman buyer could justify $20k, if eg. the interior and other cosmetic aspects of the car present well. The hardtop QV is not historically the preferred variant, I personally think the late 3.2 cab's are the best of breed. But hardtops are coming back into vogue, and I think the QV is arguably the purest of the period design. The 85 is the most refined and last model years of the QV's, so it may have some upside in the collector market in the years to come.

To get more than $20k, you would either need to repair the car of have a clear estimate of the costs to get it into running order.

The $2k is a stink bid, but if you don't have the time and can't justify the effort to sort this out, I suppose having opportunists around who take advantage of things is better than a no bid outcome. I am also sadly dealing with an estate, and it is quite random and very local as to what things are valued verses things that should be but are not and essentially go no bid.

One option is to just put the car in dry storage, and just hold it. I doubt it goes down in value, whatever the value is. Waiting for the right buyer is the task, there is the right new owner for the car, just takes patience to find them.

 

I'm very sorry to hear about your son; 39 is so young ... The first thought that comes to mind is that the car could very well be worth more than what people are saying -- take a bunch of photos and post them here. Also, let us know if it has service records, and post the recent ones -- that would tell us alot. Timing belt issue could mean alot of things -- for all we know it may have just needed a full service and your son postponed having it done. If the issue is just a matter of having the timing belts replaced 20K would be an absolute steal ...

 

I'm so sorry about your son.



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As others have mentioned, give us more details and we'll try our best to provide you with a ballpark figure.

Again, my condolences on your loss.

 

I think with very little information giving a valuation is a fool's errand.

There could just need a major service, but be a beat up rust bucket. It could be a pristine body that snapped a timing belt and now needs a full engine rebuild.

If it has been off the road for a number of years someone is going to need to go through it. I would expect to spend a lot of time cleaning switches to get things like hood releases, windows, sunroof, etc working. I would expect at the very least a major service. It will need new tires. After that it might need the suspension rebuilt, fuel lines replaced, etc. Paying someone to bring it back will not be cheap and this is if the car did not snap a timing belt and take out the engine. If it is running the original trx rims that is a 2k bill in tires alone.

A nice say 50k mile QV hard top is a 45k car give or take in today's market. Unless you put it up on Bring a trailer they do seem to sit for a bit. A high mileage one with needs is a 32-35k car. I know, I have one, and I have had more than on person try to buy it. The difference is my car runs and drives. Beverly Hills car club has been trying to sell a non running mondial 8 for sub 30k for ages now. That is a dealer who specializes in project cars. They are also going to get a bit more as a dealer, but the car isn't selling.

For those saying it is worth 20k to a breaker, you are leaving out cost to transport it, and the time/effort involved to break it up and sell it piece meal. No breaker is paying 20k for a mondial qv.

It is not a 2k car unless it is burned to a crisp. It is not a 30k car as a non runner. If you can get some pictures and more info we can try and narrow that range down a bit more.

 

First, condolences. Very sorry to read of your son's passing.

I tend to agree with most of what's been written, and specifically this below. You are wise for reaching out on the forum... hopefully you can find someone locally to you or the car to help in the process of selling. And as has been stated, more info and photos will help a great deal with giving a more accurate estimate of what you can reasonably sell it for. Blessings.

 

While I can't comment on the value, I wanted to comment on the hard top versus convertible.

While I LOVE my convertible, it's a different animal compared to a hard top. The hard tops are actually more structurally sound, and therefore, are a better "true" driver's car.

Per Dave Helms, he said he can't close the doors on the 308GTS when on a rack compared to the 308GTB. While I didn't actually confirm with him, I assume the cabriolet version of the Mondial is the same as compared to the hard top. He also mentioned that the Mondial (and it's predecessor, the GT4) actually handled better than the 308 series cars.

Even though I have the convertible, there are times I really want a hard top for "mountain twisties".

I do think that the convertibles may be more "desirable" from a commercial sense, hence the implication of higher value, but I thought I'd share my thoughts around the hard top.

Even Dave said he wanted a Mondial convertible, he said he could "pop the dogs in the back and go for a ride"... LOL

Lastly, to the OP, please take pictures and let the forum know. The easiest way to get them on the forum is to have the pictures hosted on another website and post the link when creating a reply.

My condolences for your loss.

 

In the US market, where OP is, coupes are worth more than cabs. This is down to rarity. They did not sell a lot originally. I am not sure what moysiuan is looking at, but if you want to look at sales data. Things that affect the mondial value.

What color? Ferrari Red although the most common by far, is the most desirable because it is iconic to the brand.
Interior color? Tan, when coupled with the above red. Not going to take the time, but I'd bet blue and possibly brown hurt the value (although i do like the brown personally).
What is the mileage? Sub 20k pulls a serious premium. 50kish is average, over 75k seems to be high mileage.
How many owners? One owner cars bring a premium.
Cab VS Coupe? Coupe draws more money if you look at similar cars sold around the same time.

Go dig through BAT results. Highest sale 17k mile 89 T Coupe red over tan in 2021. There have been lower mileage T cabs, even one owner cars, that have failed to hit that since then and prices have risen. The simple fact is there are not a lot of coupes in the US outside the 8.

Now 8 vs QV vs 3.2 vs T?

Newest to oldest in terms of value. I'd be curious to see where values end up in the long run. 80s cars have a resurgence going on and the 8/QV exterior certainly fits that mold. The performance of all 4 variants is pretty laughable by modern standards so not sure it really makes a huge difference going forward.

 

One thing I have noticed about Fchatters is they all think their Ferrari is worth a lot more than it really is. Most of these cars sit with a for sale sign on them for a good 6 months before the price gets dropped and a real conversation begins to the real value. You are talking about one of the most expensive cars to take to a mechanic to get fixed........ferrari draws a premium. The reason most of these guys here in the Mondial forum own this Ferrari is they are talented with a wrench and can perform simple to medium repairs, the exception to a few that are rebuilding and outfitting into electric. What I am trying to say is dont fall in love with the high numbers that are coming out of this group chat. Fchat is known for it. Bring a trailer is an auction site for restored vintage vehicles, dressed to impress, detailed to the max, running and in excellent condition. Sometimes Bringatrailer.com has low price results but for most of time they generate top dollar, keep in mind you have to pay a listing fee and a sales commission, so that big price tag wont always put big bucks in your pocket. I bought my 86 Mondial 3.2 a few years age for sub 30k. It had been for sale for over a year. It was fully working, started cold, the interior was well cared for with no splits and it came with an extra set of rims. The key here is the car was running. You could determine the condition of the suspension, the ride, the cornering. You could drive it on the newer tires and not worry about dry rotted tires that have been sitting for 6 years. You have a car that is not drivable, and there could be more issues not showing their ugly face. If your son drove the car to a point of overheating which is very easy to do with the Mondial, the valves could be bent and no longer open and close properly giving a false impression of a timing belt sputtering issue. There are too many variables to consider and really an engine tear down is necessary to see the real issues. Every system has to work perfect for a Ferrari to drive proper.

 

I personally love the hardtops, but in the end the cab is the car for me for the broader seasonal enjoyment.

Cab's also of course sold in much larger numbers in period, as they were more popular as the only convertible Ferrari available in many years. But I get that some might put a scarcity value on a hardtop.

 

You are putting feelings before data.

I find red Ferraris played out. The majority of Mondials are red. It does not change that most Ferrari buyers want red over tan and pay up for it.

 

As others have said best thing to do is post lots of pictures and any maintenance documents that you can find.

With that people can help make sure you aren’t being taken advantage of.

Sorry for your loss.

 

This is true. Classics.com is another great resource to gauge values.


This is how I see it for "average"

+/- (10%)

8=30K
QV=35K
3.2=45K
t= 55K

Of course, super low mileage or lovingly restored can easily double the values above.

 

Sorry I meant classic.com