F12 vs. F430

I'm getting some seat time this afternoon so I hopefully will be better informed. 458's are not a great deal faster than my F430, which admittedly is a bit different than the typical one and around corners, I've not met anyone in any car faster than I am but I've been driving switchbacks for 30+ years.

So you are saying a 740hp F12 is not faster than a 560hp 458? or are you saying the 458 is a better track car, thus faster? I can see that. Depends on the use case scenario and the ability to control power.

 

Yes, you need to factor in weight when looking at hp.

https://www.zeroto60times.com/vehicle-make/ferrari-0-60-mph-times/ - 458 about same as F12. 458 quite a deal faster than F430.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N%C3%BCrburgring_Nordschleife_lap_times - 458 quite a deal faster than F430. no data for F12

 

Not even Ferrari claims those times are possible, for either model in the 0-60 and Ferrari, like any other manufacturer, is likely to give the optimum conditions with their claims (i.e. see Chris Harris on Ferrari).

As far as track times, I outran a 458 in the mountains just two weeks ago in my LX570 because I know how to drive in switchbacks and tight corners. That doesn't mean my LX570 is faster. I'm just a better driver. Track times are only legit if the same driver is used in both cars.

Claiming that the 458 is as fast in a straight line as an F12? Well, I'd like to see video evidence of that. I'm not being snarky, I really would like to see it.

 

I'd say floaty is relative. Relative to a more track focused car yes. But I wouldn't say it feels any floatier than an M3. You can always drop in TDF or Novitec springs if you want to stiffen it up a bit. I have the TDF springs but haven't put them in yet. That'll be a winter project.

I'd be really surprised if an F12 didn't pull away from a 458. Another thing to consider is the base option cast wheels are pretty heavy. 33 pounds each on the rear and a large moment of inertia given it's a 20 inch rim. I think the forged bi-spokes or TDF wheels will make a noticeable difference in straight line acceleration from a stand-still given they're 8-10 pounds lighter per wheel.

 

The claim that a 458 is as fast as an F12 has little basis in the evidence I've seen, but I'm open to 3Point's evidence.

Here is a rolling race, showing an F12 walking a 458 -

Here is evidence of an F12 walking a 458 in a drag -

 

My guys recommend every 3-4 years to prevent clearcoat issues.

 

Dunno about the numbers but from my butt the F12 pulls way more viciously than the 458

 

I just sent you my evidence and you were not open to it. The track times are about the same.

 

Excellent post. I have a 360 and looking to add a FF to the stable. As your post states, they are so different but I could never give up the 360 as I love the mid engine configuration.

The OP should go get the F12 so that he can later realize how much he will miss that F430.

 

I still miss my F355 but if you ask me to swap the FF or F12 for it, I would say ‘no way’.

 

I finally took a the test drive today. Here are my first impressions:

1. The car is FAST but not so fast that it wasn't firmly planted on the road.
2. The DCT wasn't as smooth as I thought it would be
3. The car is heavy
4. The car was a bit "creaky"
5. The condition of the car is what I would call "rough"

I left feeling better about my manual F430 spider's driving characteristics. If only the F430 had the same power, it would be perfect for me. As of now, I'm sticking with the F430. In the manual configuration, its just more of a driver's car to me, albeit slow compared to the F12.

 

I’m lucky enough to have both an F430 spider and an F12 Berlinetta and have been thinking about your question since your original post. I agree with the comments that these are very different vehicles that fulfill different needs. I find that I drive the F12 far more frequently than the F430, but can’t imagine parting with either one. For me, the F430 tends to be for perfect, blue sky special occasion days whereas I’ll run the F12 on everything from early Saturday morning mountain switchbacks to a Friday night take out sushi run to checking out our local cars and coffee. Each is special in its own way, although I also agree with the sentiment of the earlier post that the F12 seems to draw less overt attention than the F430. I haven’t experienced the issues in points 2 and 4 of your test drive review, and suspect they may be related to point 5 / specific to that example? It could be worth checking out a different example if you remain interested in the F12. Either way, we are incredibly lucky to enjoy these driving experiences and best of luck in your search. A few in use photos below:

Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

Jim, I could see driving the F12 as a daily driver or as a car to take on a long trip, but not the special occasion, fall or spring weekend drive in the Blue Ridge mountains where the F430 shines.

I suspect that my first impression of the car would change after several days in the car. This particular example was really in rough condition, for a Ferrari. The calipers had been painted white but didn't appear to be powder coated. TPMS sensor was out of calibration. I opened up the flap that covers the tools, several tools were missing and the plastic tray that held the tools had been removed at some point and there were several missing screws. It was a low spec car, it didn't even have the backup camera. The tires needed to be replaced and one of the rear tires had obviously deflated dangerously low. It was as if a dealer bought the car and did 0 reconditioning for sale. Thus, in fairness to the F12, the one I drove may not be a representative example. The first thing I thought after driving it was "this is a faster and higher revving C7".