2022 Dutch GP: Post Race Analysis | Page 2 | FerrariChat

2022 Dutch GP: Post Race Analysis

Discussion in 'F1' started by SS454, Sep 4, 2022.

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  1. davem

    davem F1 World Champ
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    Hamilton has obviously learned to much more articulate and gracious over time. But has his moments.
    He should have pitted for softs as well
     
  2. F430 F1 Singapore

    Mar 4, 2016
    144
    Singapore
    My own fairly dispassionate thoughts on this race:

    1) Lewis is losing his edge. He exhibits bursts of brilliance in outqualifying George, but with a second or third tier team, as Merc is now, it's a consistency game and George is running rings around him in this respect. Maybe it really is time for Sir Lewis to take his well-deserved break.

    2) George owes noone an apology for what he did. He did what was best for him and he got second place as a result, good call George! And in my view, GR is at least equal to LH in the team's eyes now, if not outright No. 1

    3) Toto also needs no apologies, he has to look out for the team. At least Merc is giving Red Bull something to swat at. Ferrari can't seem to get out of their own way long enough to make a difference other than providing comic relief on live global TV. Ferrari's biggest adversary right now is their own incompetence.

    4) I smell something very fishy with Yuki Tsunoda and Alphatauri, the loser minions to RB. Shades of Crashgate light, nuff said. Merc was running away with the race on hards, Max needed an SC/VSC to alter the balance, et voila! Very, very suspicious.
     
  3. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
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    I agree on 1,2, and 3, but reserve my judgement on 4.
    Yes, it was a strange coincidence, shall we say. I too thought Lewis was on his way to win at that point.
    Perhaps we will hear more about it in future. The Crashgate went undetected for a year until someone blew the whistle.
    Maybe Tsunoda has a seat for life now ? At the same time, I cannot imagine Red Bull risking everything on a bit of foul play.
    Crashgate did cost a lot to Renault in terms of reputation, and it took them years to recover.
     
  4. davem

    davem F1 World Champ
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    Why didn’t they just retire the car??? Few laps down. 30 plus second pit stop. It was hopeless. Save the money!
    Or were they waiting for the BTC transfer to clear!?
     
    F430 F1 Singapore likes this.
  5. F430 F1 Singapore

    Mar 4, 2016
    144
    Singapore
    I think that's very wrong of you!










    Everyone knows Monero is the way to go now. :D:D:D
     
    Edward 96GTS and davem like this.
  6. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    No.

    "we will be driving through the pit, main straight is closed" was the message to Lewis
    "BOX BOX BOX BOX" was the very rapid message to Russell, so I assume he was very very close to their box already when called out by his engineer (not Bono).

    Red Bull was leading tthe race when Max asked if they could Box for a free set or not, and got told his stop won't be free but they'd pit anyways. They knew they'd fall behind both Mercedes doing so.
     
  7. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Listen to Yuki's radio trace I posted in the race thread and this theory goes out the window immediately. He stopped right at a marshall post to minimize interference in the race. Also, why would a team that would be 100 points clear of #2 after this race even finishing P3 risk their entire championship campaign to win 1 more race? Makes zero sense.
     
    lagunacc and werewolf like this.
  8. JotaEle

    JotaEle Formula Junior
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    SaifC, lagunacc, absostone and 4 others like this.
  9. Bill in Atlanta

    Bill in Atlanta Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2004
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    The more I think about Hamilton's response and feedback at the end of yesterday's race, I contrast his actions vs. a peer in a similar situation: Scott Dixon
    Dixon is a 6-time champion in IndyCar, veteran, team leader.
    No matter how bad the situation, he's always "in the hunt".
    Yesterday's IndyCar race in Portland was perfect example; qualifies terrible (16th IIRC), slowly worked his way up, grabbed 3rd while Newgarden & Rossi fought, then sneaked up to 2nd. Enters seasons last race not in 4th, but 2nd in championship hunt. Cool, quiet and strategic. Big picture guy
     
    lagunacc, Bas, 375+ and 1 other person like this.
  10. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    In this sea of change, i'm the only constant...
     
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  11. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

    Oct 28, 2021
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    I haven't heard Yuki's radio, which might be a key element. During the race, a lot of actions were very very strange so it is unsurprising that people would suspicious and things like Crashgate shows that shady things do happen in F1.

    Yuki complained about a loose wheel and stopped on track, but drove away with an all clear from the team.
    Yuki pits, has the team spend a decent amount of time on his seat belts, team changed tires but didn't inspect the car otherwise
    Yuki leaves pits and immediately says there is something wrong, which he now says might be the diff.
    It appears the car could drive under its own power, no evidence of it being PU or gearbox.
    Post race, Yuki was very vague about what happened.
    I don't think anyone has officially stated what the cause of the DNF was.
    So lots of unanswered questions.

    I think it warrants an investigation, but I think you are right that there is far too much to lose with very little to gain in the grand scheme of things. I expect that AlphaTauri will be in the clear.
     
    werewolf likes this.
  12. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    Mercedes fans need a scapegoat ... always.

    Case in point: How exactly did Red Bull orchestrate the grand plan of Mercedes failing to put fresh softs on Hamilton's car, again, during a safety car with a few laps to go?
     
  13. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Anyone that has seen any interview by Yuki, ever, knows that he's quite a strange kid.

    The radio very very clearly said to leave the pit (so no SC) and find a SAFE place to stop. He parked right at "gate" thing where cars can be recovered through quickly. If he wanted to force a fake VSC, he'd have parked it on the road somewhere and walked off.

    There is ZERO reason for Red Bull to cause a fake SC to get a rather meaningless win considering their massive lead in the title race. Not only that, but it also messed with their own strategy of running a bit longer and going on a set of soft till the end (Max did the first stint on Soft as well and lasted 18 laps, there is no reason he couldn't do the same again on a much lighter fuel load). Merc and RBR's simulation both suggested that Max would win without an SC.

    Why would Red Bull risk an enormous fine, their race licenses of 2 teams, invalidate their championships, for 1 race win in a season they are 99% sure to win now anyways? If they wanted to employ such tactics they'd have done so last year when they stilll had compeition...

    Yuki as far as I know isn't even yet confirmed for 2023, if he did this on purpose that would create an even larger leak.

    Sorry, but it makes absolute zero sense to do it.
     
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  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ

    Jun 3, 2006
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    Nothing to do with Red Bull; the once perfect Mercedes pitwork is falling apart. It already started last year. Their strategy is in disarray.
    You have one driver told to listen to instructions, feeling "stiched up, whilst the other can decide on his own and impose his choice.
    It's totally self-inflicted.
     
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  15. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    I will offer this ... a problem in a differential can "feel" just like a loose wheel, to the driver (symptoms like vibration, perhaps unexpected lateral "wiggle") ... and not be readily obvious to mechanics looking for a wheel problem.

    Not saying this is the case here, but it is at least plausible.

    What i don't know, for sure, is what metrics the pit wall can measure to monitor a slipping or erratic diff. They are electronically controlled nowadays, yes? (google knows, but i'm lazy)
     
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  16. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
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    goodbye
    (PS .. i'm almost old enough ... almost ... to remember the invention of posi differentials. my how times have changed)
     
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  17. SS454

    SS454 Formula 3

    Oct 28, 2021
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    I completely agree that a problem in the diff can give strange feelings. As far as I know they are electronically controlled. They might be hydraulically or pneumatically actuated, but it's likely electronic too. Having erratic drive to the wheels can certainly feel odd in the handling and likely wouldn't pick up in the data as obvious as a PU or gearbox issue.
     
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  18. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I had a diff go on one of my cars a few years ago and initially thought I had a flat/sheered hub bolts.

    Diff on an F1 car is electro-hydraullic (electric control, hydraulic operation).
     
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