C8 Z06

Im in favor of preventing flipping, it just peverts everything. I liek your solution being mileage based as mileage is the enemy of flippers.

 

Was at the LRP historic and got a good look at the z06 as well as spending some time with the corvette rep there.
In some ways the car is visualy disappointing in that it basicaly looks like a C8 with a wing and a somewhat more aggressive front end. Yeah its little wider ad the intakes a little bigger. But by comparison when you see a Gt3 its pretty obvious its a very different and more purposeful to a regular 911.

Then we have the interior colors, the one that was all red, bright red and everywhere, no class, tarts hadbag comes to mind. Definitely not marrone

That all being said, the motor looks to be a real peach. They had a cutaway one on a stand, its really compact and great looking with really good bits.
i asked the rep about the z07 package. the shocks for the cf wheels and regular wheels have the same program(BTW the regular wheels look way way better), but the steering has a different algorithm. the z07 tires may be street legal, but theyre really close to a slick, I wouldn't want to drive hem in the wet too far, or would have another set of more road able tires for regular use. The high aero wing is nothing to write home about, not as offensive as the pictures, not a looker or really purposeful, nothing like the big wing on the c7 zr1.

I asked about getting the z07 package without the ceramic brakes. The rep said that probably in 2-3 years the car will be far more ala carte as happened with previous version once production was underway, but for year 1 its pretty fixed in terms of choices.. he said eh could tell from my question i really wanted a car to track, and that they had tried to make the z06 as the track car, having benchmarked the Gt3. He went on to say that with cf wheels it was 3450 lbs which was a little heavy but in future there were possibilities.
Took a good look at the naked cutaway from they had. Truthfully there is a ton of lux crap that can be eliminated if they really want to go lighter on a future version.

To me it looks a bit big as c8s are, more aventador size than 458, the motor is propbaly like a more powerful 458, well see how the handling goes and tactility. Thyeve got the Italian exotic motor and sound, have they captured some of the rest of what makes the Italians so appealing in terms of tactility along with the track hadlign/durabilty of a gt3. Or is this basicaly a slightly sharper C8 with a groovy sounding motor.

We await the first tests.
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That's also the DRY weight, so figure 36XX or so curb weight.

 

I love the car. It is bigger than I hoped as are all new cars and heavier. The interior options can be speced to make it gaudy just as with any other marque. Fortunately sane choices make it possible to purchase one that is gorgeous.
It is made in the USA.

 

Excellent write up, Boxerman.

I share your thoughts. Styling, like colors obviously are subjective. To compare to Porsche, I wouldn’t purchase an entry 911, but a Touring or TTS provides better styling and features to purchase one.

For someone that doesn’t track the Z06, other the wonderful new engine and tweaks -
but I am not sure I could pick out any real visual differences between the Z06 and the base model. That said, I’m still on W/L for Z06 allocation, but rethinking buying one next year.

More Corvette pix from yesterday.





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yeah I know. 300lbs heavier than a gt3.
If they focus from what I saw there is 200 lbs to loose pretty easy. There is not total focus there yet, or they’re trying to compensate with tech, maybe they’ll pull it off.
The z06 is trying to do the ferrari Lux gt thing and still appeal as a track weapon.

the Ferrari type buyer is not a track driver.

 

yes Vette has a great history and some of the co. Wot cars were serious machines.

that’s the thing, if one does not want. Z06!to track there will be enter choices for road and faster on road like zr1

currently the z06 is trying to be all things, we need the zr1 zora and e Rey to satisfy the fast road buyer so the zo6 can be free to focus.

 

Using the Z06 on track is absolutely the starting point for a great and highly sought after option/delete package.
A/C, stereo, interior and even shorter rear end to delete the trunk.
Heaven forbid the use of a manual transaxle!!!

 

I dont think shortening is a realistic option as its crash structure aero etc. Within the basic car as it exists now, there's probably a significant amount of weight to loose in the trunk area anyway. Rear hatch and removable roof are also probably areas to lose weight. Exess sound deadening, thinner glass(all this has been done before by others.). In the interior I dont see Gm rengineering the hvac system. If a lotus can have stero so can a vette but maybe the simpler version is lighter. Theres probbaly close on 100lbs to loose in the seats. Lets scrap the electric motors and heavy seats and go for some carbon shells.

Attention to detail here and there, deleting some frippery and adding things like seats with a focus theres 200lbs to loose possibly more.
A shorter final drive ratio, or more closely stacked gears on the higher gears will make th ecar much fatser on track to. Imo most road cars, the gears get spaced pout too far as you get into the higher gears, on track one wants the opposite so as to mainatan drive as speeds rise. Also any top speed above 175is is purely academic on pretty much any track i can think of.

Iron rotors and some light aftermarket wheels for track work and now wer're really talking.

As for paddles, if its traffic or track, paddles are simply the way to go. I would say especially in a car that will be this fast, not having to deal with shifting means one can brake later and bettr, focus more on corners and upshift more ideally. Im a stick guy, I have 4 stick shift cars including my track and semi track car, but as the speeds get up there and the laptimes drop pdalles just simply work with you great, and much as I love the retro vibe this vette is a modern digital car. Which brings me to the last question/point, ad that is the ability to dial in and out the various systems. Mos cars have a few settings youre stuck with, some others allow one to adjust shocks seprately to transmission etc. One of the great things is being able to dial out yaw control and have a stepped traction system. maclaesn and lambos famously do not allow you to dial out yaw control,and really good drivers find the car then constantly interfering and tripping up the driver on track(im not talking n about staged traction control). By really good I mean pros.

Dont know how I feel about the adjustable magnetic shocks vs spool valve ones. But there is weigth to be lost there and performance to be gained, at cost in road use which si maybe a step too far depending on execution.

From the cutaway frame what I saw were really good bits on (a bit big and wide) all aluminum frame/tub. The z06 as I saw it is more imo a zr1 with ferrai type motor than a honed track animal like a Gt porche. But all the bits seem to be there. Hopefuly when the "faster" road cars are released and the z06 does not have to play powerful lux Gt, we will see the nee plus utra track vette emerge. lets call this one now the z05.5 Im sure it will set some great times, and Ive no doubt the press will do a few laps and call it the greatest thing sine sliced bread, but given the weight and frippery its clearly not all the way to where it could or should be. My suggestions are made for bits that are known to work on track for road cars and have been done by the likes of porche for 2 decades, none require any significant engineering.

 

My God. Why don't you build your own car to spec and then tell us why you could not do this or that because for funding? I have to ask, just what racing license do you actually have or are you like me and just a HPDE guy? Personally, I do not have the time or money to spend to be so in tune with all these cars. How many have you owned? I am not trying to be an ass but your responses and comments make ME (and we have never met) to think..... Not being an ass here, just wanting to know your background for making some of these statements. I will retract if needed. FYI, my driving coach and instructor is Don Kitch Jr.

 

I would like to be the one to reply to myself and say I was being an ass and apologize to boxerman. Your comments are always very detailed with experience from what I can tell to back it up.

 

Sure good questions.
SCCA license, although have not raced single seaters in a decade. Thats a function of time age family focus etc.
I do coach through the summer for 2 HPODE organizers and find it fulfilling and teachable for myself as we all make the same mistakes, plus track time is track time. i also run my own 2 cars on track. One is a lotus exige v6 cup car, 400 odd horsies 300 ftlbs 2300 llbs wet. No ps no paddles, cage fire system etc, it travels to track on trailer. The oter is a more or less stock Elise which I swap wheels and tires on and drive tot he track. Given limited track time I have for the past few years focused on Lime rock and Watkins glenn. There is a group of 12 of us who travel to the tracks work on our cars and spar with and challenge each other. Its not racing but is friendly competitive..

So one faster hard edged car for bigger tracks, and one pure momentum car for smaller tracks.
While i have in recent years driven Gt3's and Gt4s on track, plus some Maclrens including a 570 GT4 race car, as well as various caymans converted to pure track cars, Alfa 4c, Veyttes through c7 Gs, and then others on street, don't own those cars and track them regularly. I do run against them on track, and some are driven by capable drivers who are friends and I have an idea of their abilities and makeups. Plus if you run any car on track there are certain basics that work..

Most recently(past 2 weeks) I have coached people in a Golf GTi, and Lotus Elise and a Camrao ZL1. IMO the golf was too soft, and the FWD with turbo was far from ideal. An Elise is always good and as close as you can get to a single seater in a closed street legal car. If you want to learn how to really drive not using brakes and power as a crutch hard to do better. Anyone can floor any car down a straight, and over brake for corners, which is a classic example of many evtte drivers. Learnign to carry speed, thats something one usulay learns in a momentum car and then adds the power later.

I did think the camaro zl1 was impressive on track, and the ones I have seen running hard driven by people I respect put up really decent lap times on a big track which rewards power like the glen.
Maybe the camaro is not as rewarding to drive as some others, but as blunt instrument as a drive to the track car it really works, as do some mustangs.

The best car out there imo if you want a out the box car for road and track is a cayman GT4 and for a price a Gt3, all the elements come together. So I look at what porche does when they alter their cars to Gt spec. I look at vette which seems to be following the Porsche model making one platform with a number of variants focused in different directions. thats great, it expands the bandwidth of customer base and makes the conomic model more durable and vibrant..

(BTW anoter great track car is a c6 z06 when strippped, stiffened with cage and possessing apropriate suspension and brakes upgrades, so the potential is there especially as vettes since the c5 have had excellent pieces underneath, Im alaso ahuge fam or the last z28 which was really focussed, even if too big and heavy and maybe a step too far for such a big heavy car).

now Gm can build whatever it wants, and the vette like other sports cars is already overbought. But if theyre making a version of the car thats allegedly the "track" car derived from the race car, as they say, then there are imo based on 20 years track experience(single seaters through road cars) certain things are known to be part of the formula that works, things that are serious and some that are not.

Vettes have excellent bits underneath and the c8 while big looks to have the stuff of legend. Arguably the track buyer pool is small, but then porche cant keep up with Gt3 and Gt4 demand and the prowess of those cars provides halo for the rest, same reason some companies race.

That all being said if were going to be sold a track capable vette lets have a version really focused towards that, others do it, and so can vette. Its not a function of reineineeing the car so much as allowing the buyer to chooose the apropriate bits, like iron rotors witht eh z07 aero, or really lightweight seats. From what i saw of the spec, the z07 is using tech to make some good laptimes and cover for not doing some of the harder bits. Thats fine but that's why I call it a z05.5. Point is they can go all the way, the pieces are there and as Porsche showed the market is there. Lets see a real challenger, not so many chages to make and I think in time Gm will allow one to spec apropriatly , once the "crowd " moves on to the faster Zl1.

i ahve one on order, and Im lookign forwards to what is primarilya fun road car, than can still really dance on track on occasion for more than a day or two.
I see more vettes doing that dance than most other marques when i go to the track, now lest see them do it as well or better than a Gt3 for longer.

 

I have mentioned this before, but the track only focused version is coming if that is what you want.
Race Car Version of the Chevrolet C8 Corvette Z06 Will Arrive in 2024 – Robb Report

 

Nope, that is a race car, an very different animal to track focused street legal car.A porche cup car is a very different animal to a street Gt3 and a Gt3spec or even Gt4 spec race car more different again.

A full on Gt3 spec race car, needs a significant team of players to keep running and the costs are way out there.

Im talking about a drive to the track street legal road car like a road Gt3 or GT4 porche..

 

But its everything you want minus the street legal part

 

Nope

I think you do not appreciate just how different a full on race car is, and what it takes to run one. Plus If I were speeding north of 300k on a pure track car, there are way better options than a vette.

the whole appeal of a z06 at least for me, is reasonable turn key running costs(lest say less than 2k per day ontrack when you add it all up) attendant turn key reliability, the ability to drive to the track, and importantly street use for the other 345 days of the year.

Ferrari did this way back when with the 250swb superb on road and track. Porche reinvented the category with the GT3 and latterly the Gt4. none of their oter cars are imo out the box really trackable althought hey sorta work there.

the C5 z06 was a chevy attempt as was the c6 z06 which sorta work with some upgrades. The C7 z06 did not work and was too compromsied, the Gs did work but was hardlley a class leader. The current Camros do work of a fshion, but are blunt instruments and while great for the price are nowhere near what a vette can be.

Alfa 4c i thoughw as really good on track but I hear they are not durable. While I am a lotus fan, the evora is not it, the eliges do hit the spot. Some Mustangs work in a similar fashion to the camaros.
Everything else is pretty much a pretender, except maybe a pista or 765 mclaren, and those come at a severe cost in running expenses, like maybe 10k per day if you really add it up, in which case might as well have a real race car..

 

Come on. Live a little.

 

I think the idea is C8 base to Z06 is like going from a 911 base to a GTS/911 Turbo. The ZR1 has always been the bonkers car with everything turned up to 11. Chevy definitely left something on the table with the base C8. I'm sure they're still going to leave a little more on the table knowing what's coming down the pipe.

I will agree that the Z06 should be a track weapon and more track focused (aka the C6 Z06 vs base C6 it was light, high revving NA V8, and manual only). Chevy trying to cater to the masses and the C7 Z06 was a let down. Convertible, auto, and major cooling issues. Hopefully Chevy learned their lesson with the C8 Z06.

 

I have been invited to the media launch at Pitt Race next week.

With any luck I'll manage a ride, if not a drive, around the track.

 

Look forward to hearing about it when you get back!

 

let’s say 3550 lbs with metal brakes and wheels
Add another 150-200lbs for fluids 3750lbs.
I think dry weight on a gt3 is 400lbs less.

on the other hand a Camaro zl1 is 200lbs heavier has a higher center of gravity and prob more drag.I just saw one of these (headers and race e cats) run 2 mins flat at the Glen on r compounds. That’s really cooking for any car and yuge for a street legal one. owner said padsl last 4 days and tires 3 which is not horrible. True the supercharged camaro has way more tq and maybe a bit more hp, but it’s also manual.

in theory then if the z06 is really better than a camaro we’re talking maybe a 1.58 which is what a ferrari 458 challenge car on slicks can do, and what I saw a good amateur do in a brand spanking new gt3 cup mr do.

that all being said the Camaro with headers is maybe 675 ho and gobs of tq.

still if a 4000lbs car can have pads that last 4 days and tires 3, there is clear potential for the Vette.

if also say lap times at a this level are more dependant on driver than the difference between a 509hp 3150 lbs porche and a 650 hp heavier Camaro or Vette.

one last thing to ponder the Camaro zl1 1lt has those spool valve shocks and really hard springs, it’s notionally streetable unless you have really smooth roads. The z06 is gonna have magnetic shocks which are a great all round compromise but not quite he same thing for track.

clearly the potential is there

 

2:00 flat at Watkins is definitely respectable. My 991.2 GT3 did 1:58's all day long right from the showroom floor with Hoosier R7's and was reliable as a watch. I just swapped out the PCCB's and added a half cage. No one I ran with (that wasn't familiar with Porsches) believed it was stock. Only issue I ever had was the rear steering motors overheating and throwing codes.

I've seen well-driven 458 Challenge cars lap in the very low 1:50's at the Glen. Most gentlemen drivers that run Challenge cars cannot get the most out of them. Had a Challenge car crash right in front of me (turn #9 at Watkins) during an FCA event because he wouldn't give me a point-bye and was trying to stay ahead of me...SMH.

 

I hear that
Turn 9 not even sure how you go on with the front
But didn’t like a lotus and cayman behind
Pushed beyond ability and bang

 

Last weds a c7 zo6 blew motor on the esses
An oil slick for I’m the beginning of turn 2 to 3
Scary

 

tha camaro was on r compounds not slicks
Which makes it even more impressive

mever thought I’d see such a heavy car dance so well.

said he ran 57s at lrp In that big car