400i price question

Mark Hyman's automotive offerings are typically top notch. A couple of reference points; (1) Donald Osborne's 400i sold on BaT for $68K (Automatic) and (2) an 87 412 5 spd was a no sale at a high bid of $85K. (3) An 82 400i 5 spd also sold on BaT for $77.5K in 2020.
So...the market might suggest that for a very nice car in the US, the $89K level is justifiable. It should have a full history and should have had some significant work done on brake overhaul, suspension bushings, head gaskets, fuel pump rubber parts inside the tank, etc. You don't want to get into spending all the same money you would on a less expensive car. I know this part first hand (but the knowledge of the workings of the car is priceless I tell myself!). Everything should work. Everything should have been gone through.
Then enjoy the heck out of it! Mine is an AT, but it is such a nice car to drive. And consider how much some other common cars are bringing...$89K will seem pretty reasonable in comparison.
...And I think the Market letter is biased...

 

Make sure to ask about the timing chain and exhaust valves, both MUST been done (eventually).

 

I don't think this price is out of line at all given the cost of the next best thing with a Ferrari Columbo V12 - a Daytona. I have a 5-speed, Series 1 in the exact same color combination, including the tan dash which I believe is very rare (not that it really matters). It looks like this car lost its fog lights (at least I can't see them in the photos). The Euro bumpers are very cool, and the red tipped Ansa exhaust looks great.
These cars, as you know, do benefit from being driven regularly, so sorting this one may take some coin and time if you plan to use it as intended.
Not just because I own one, but these cars are way undervalued imho given the sound, driving experience, and build quality. Good luck in your search.

 

Good day J,

Just a heads up that the car does not look to have a CA BAR Sticker and so registering it in CA may be extremely challenging, and/or very expensive, or may not be possible. As with all these cars a thorough PPI would be a good idea no matter how a car looked in pictures.

Cheers,

Sam

 

J Ingram
I am a well known poster on this forum. I am putting my 1984 400i Auto up for sale now; I am just starting to get ads organized. It has 93,000 miles because it has become so reliable with my own frequent attention to details and problem solving. I have had the car for 16 years and added 56,000 miles. Earlier years were challenging as i sorted out the car. Now it is scary how reliable it has become!! My wife and i take long weekend trips to vineyards and do touristic rallies, some 1000 mile ones. Timing chain and tensioner were done in 2014. I do a 3-month R&R every winter. I have solved most of the electrical issues these cars often have.
You can spend less that $89K for this well maintained, reliable car. Send PN and I will send more details. (We did its last rally last weekend, so I am just organizing ads and pictures.)
Ken

 

Do yourself a favor, pay more and get a great car. They can be very expensive to put right.

As you have been told already, timing chains and valves are known issues and can be expensive. Great car but can be labor intensive so shop carefully.

 

Do not dismiss the auto transmission. These are easy to customize to your driving style, do work extreemly well and are totally underrated. Most prospective buyers are looking for blue-ribot manual cars, which is not the way I would look for a car.

Test quite a few, keep the first that suits you well. I'was amazed by a Swiss white auto car (not my favourite colour) , and the one I could most easily push to the limit and overhall best handling was a 400i gen2 (which is actually the variant I appreciate the least!).

So be open minded on the colour and features, but very discerning on the maintenance.

 

+1 on the auto transmission.

Also, being based in the US, you have endless options with the venerable TH400. Very easy to maintain, virtually indestructible and so many upgrade options available.

The auto versions are also (believe or not) more fuel efficient

I think the automatic transmission suits the character of the 400/412 perfectly - haven driven both, I would never trade to an auto.

The clutch is heavy and in town driving is very involved.

By replacing the torque converter with a smaller, lighter one, and higher stall speed you can greatly change the driving characteristics.

Add a "shift kit" that can be bought for next to nothing.

My advice: Drive BOTH before buying and then decide if the manual "premium" is worth it.

 

Nice Corniche you have there, it has the same exact transmission as the 400/412 auto.

 

Not exactly: this transmission was custom tailored so as to add maximum overlap when shifting gear and hence allows for the smoothest transition. (even smoother than a Cadillac). By contrast the Ferrari tranny was a borg warner (made under GM license), with a custom governor, which is a far less demanding customization (not a customization actually).

 

Both are the TH400, there are many variations with this transmission, but it is the same transmission.

 

The Rolls Royce TH400 was a very specific TH400, whereas the one used by Ferrari was an off-the-shelf product marginally adapted to the Ferrari.

Ferrari was buying "locally": they were using the Italian made Aspera air-conditionning compressor (made under York license) instead of York, similarly they selected the "European" Borg-Warner TH400 instead of the "US" GM TH400. By relying on this European manufacturer, they just could not source a transmission matched to the V12. The Borg-Warner 12'' converter is a poor match to a high rev engine (well it's actually the worst according to John Kilgore). They finally tried to fix this with a shorter rear axle and a (marginally) better converter, but still relied on the same transmission and slow servo.

The TH400 was a good basis, if they had done their homework like Rolls Royce, the automatic transmission would not have earned this poor reputation. (given the immense knowledge we've got online, nowadays, this is easy to fix, back then this was another story).

 

I bought the first 400 I saw, and didn’t bother having it inspected.
Unsurprisingly therefore it has since cost me more than twice the purchase price to get it up to its current standard.
Just putting it out there as a warning to others!

 

i suggest you go to the Bring a Trailer website and do a search on 400I. It will show you a graph with purchase price, etc. You can also check the condition of each of the cars shown to get a fair idea of a reasonable price. Obviously, there is a premium for a 5 speed over the automatic. That being said, I feel the automatic suits this car well as it is a touring car and not a sportscar. So if you are not set on a five speed, you can get a top notch automatic for less than an average 5 speed.

 

When will your kitchen be done? I'm not in a big hurry. Ken

 

Did you end up going to see it?

 

I just posted an FChat ad for my 1984 400i Auto.
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1984-400i-auto-93-225-miles.667148/
Many more pics and a Word doc with many details over my 16 years of ownership, email and phone number in ad.
Ken