Questions About F430 Door Micro-Switches (battery drain) | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Questions About F430 Door Micro-Switches (battery drain)

Discussion in '360/430' started by AZHokie, Apr 12, 2018.

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  1. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
    So does your (F430) passenger lock switch behave in the same way as the driver’s switch? i.e. Is it springy or does it stay up?

    I’m just trying to determine what is normal. Could it be that when the stereo guys put the door back together that they reassembled something incorrectly and the switch is pushing against something inside the door (not allowing the switch to stay up)? And/or is one of the microswitches permanently activated by this obstruction?

    Well, that’s a possibility. Perhaps to aid in our diagnosis, we need someone with an operative car to comment. Upon entering the car and closing the door, do the window switch lights extinguish after a certain time period and then come back on after the ignition is turned on?

    For info... The interior lights are controlled by the microswitches in the door latch mechanisms (driver and passenger). The latch switches also have an input into the Window ECU and also the instrument binnacle (for door open indications). The latch switches send an earth/ground to the Interior Light Delay Module and the Alarm ECU.

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    The F430 M004-B switch is the equivalent of the 360's 11M switch in the previous (360) wiring diagram. As we still haven't determined which switches control the window switch illumination, these latch switches may be reponsible for at least one of your car's problems. However, if you can confirm that your interior lights go off after the doors are closed (after a certain time period) in auto mode, that might eliminate the latch switches as a cause.

    Even if you don't do any maintenance on the car yourself, at least you can feed the mechanic with a ton of data.
     
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  2. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,829
    Isle of man- uk
    Before you start ripping the door cards off check this window module box, only a 10 min job to get too. Spray the contacts with contact cleaner and be sure the big multi pin plug is fully home- it will be parallel with the module box. That might cure your internal locking
     
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  3. Rosso_United_1999

    Mar 31, 2019
    201
    Manchester, UK
    OK thanks I'll check this tomorrow with my local mechanic.

    Switched the battery back on as its stopped raining here.

    Can't be 100% sure but potentially the window lights may now be off. But it's too light to say. I'll check back tonight.

    Found the car off standing voltage to be 12.1V. What's normal for these cars?

    Plugged my CTEK in and it suggested a battery with 1/3 life - 3 orange lights. So the battery is low(ish) on juice.

    I first saw the window lights the same day as I had a pretty decent 1hr+ drive (both ways) - that evening I switched the battery off. The battery has been off all of Friday and the morning of Saturday.

    So in the course of that period (say 6 hours) the window lights were on and the time the battery was then switched off (day and a bit), the battery has drained from presumably full charge to 12.1V (or maybe a little more).

    Unless these cars generally sit at the low 12s?

    In any case, my dome lights appear to work OK. The turn off when door closed / alarm on.

    Not yet fiddled with the door locks as honestly, if the lights are now off, I don't want to upset that by tripping anything via the door locks. I'll be able to actually see the illuminated lights a bit later on.
     
  4. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    Isle of man- uk
    11.8 v engine off and 14.3 running on mine- if u find the window switch light cure let me know as mine on as well but not found the cure yet.
    The multi pin plug on the window module has a sort of fulcrum point, the plug pivots around it as you push the plug in. It must be full home and parallel to the box
     
  5. Rosso_United_1999

    Mar 31, 2019
    201
    Manchester, UK
    Thanks for that. OK. So battery seems healthy enough.

    Interesting you've not found a cure as you seem more electrical knowledgeable / DIY than me. Have you taken the door cards off yet?
     
  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,829
    Isle of man- uk
    I have had drivers card out as i had to change the complete door lock.
     
  7. Rosso_United_1999

    Mar 31, 2019
    201
    Manchester, UK
    Did you have this issue / check or change microswitches at that point?
     
  8. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,829
    Isle of man- uk
    No, window light came on long time after.
    Window stows and drops fine
     
  9. Rosso_United_1999

    Mar 31, 2019
    201
    Manchester, UK
    Frustrating. Do your door locks work now and did you find the reason why they didn't?

    And are you talking the internal LOCK central locking lever or the actual mechanical lock that was broken? Is yours also a 430?

    Edit: also how are you managing the battery drain?
     
  10. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Mike, his driver's door locks using the key in the external lock. The wiring for this is in parallel with the interior lock lever on the armrest (i.e. it uses the same pin on the ECU). The ECU is ok (at least for the locking part). The locking issue must be a switch or door wiring problem. Of course, it won't hurt to check the ECU plugs and clean the pins for the lighting issue. Mike, maybe you can independently test the F430 armrest lock lever to see if it is spring loaded or whether it stays in the up position? If Rosso's switches are not doing the same thing then it's likely the switches are broken or jamming.

    Thanks for checking. If the dome lights are working properly, it's unlikely that the window switch illlumination uses the same trigger. i.e. it's not a doorlatch switch problem.

    I would focus on the ECU and the switches on the armrest. We just need to confirm the operation of the lock lever (springloaded or not).
     
  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,829
    Isle of man- uk
    .

    Arm switch is spring loaded and returns as soon as you let it go, mine was not locking the door as plug not in full on window module, i had nothing else open when i cured my issue
     
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  12. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Thanks.

    Can you recall if it was locking using a key in the external lock?
     
  13. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    Mine will lock from outside with a key
     
  14. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    But was it locking using the key when you had the problem?

    I'm just trying to figure out what property these switches have which may cause the window switch lighting issue in Rosso's car and the other owner's cars.
     
  15. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    The key has always worked manually
     
  16. Rosso_United_1999

    Mar 31, 2019
    201
    Manchester, UK
    OK been in my car. Window button lights still on. Battery charging fine though via trickle (ie it's capable of managing the drain if kept on trickle). Battery up to 12.7v via a couple hours charging.

    My alternator also fine at 14.1 / 14.2

    My passenger (left side in UK) Central locking works fine (well, it makes a locking click sound anyway)

    My driver LOCK lever still does nothing.

    I also noticed a constant electrical CANBUS-y (I assume) tone with ignition on. Anyone else got this constant tone? Any ideas what that is?

    Seeing as the chap from Club Scud (mentioned a few posts above) sorted his illuminated lights via lock microswitches AND my internal central locking isn't working, we have to assume they are at fault here too, right?

    Do we think there's a possibility that something could have been tripped when work was done to disconnect my stereo? That's my only possible other idea. Given closeness of radio to window buttons.

    My specialist said "let's fix the door locks first and see if that resolves the light issue." I guess I'd have to agree as not sure where else to start?
     
  17. Rosso_United_1999

    Mar 31, 2019
    201
    Manchester, UK
    * plot twist *

    My window lights have gone out..
     
  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    The key barrel has a 3 contact microswitch on it. I hope it works more than mechanically :D
     
  19. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    That's a good first step. This was my first choice back in post #17 (for your door lock problem). I was just trying (unsucessfully) to figure out, through the powers of deduction, if it could also cause the window switch light problem.

    Two theories:
    Exercising the passenger's and driver's lock lever switches has reset something in the system
    It has stopped raining and moisture has stopped interfering with the electronics :D

    Anyway, good luck with the stereo guys ;)

    No idea, sorry. By the way, do UK cars have aural warnings for open doors and seatbelts?
     
  20. Rosso_United_1999

    Mar 31, 2019
    201
    Manchester, UK
    We do not. Clarkson wouid complain too much ;)
     
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  21. Rosso_United_1999

    Mar 31, 2019
    201
    Manchester, UK
    If the lights remain out I'm just going to leave it. Contemplating putting in storage fairly soon as there's a lot of rain about. I'll just store it with the battery off to save components in case it flares back up (looking at you stupidly expensive window ecu..). And I'll worry about it in Spring!

    These cars have bloody weird electrics.
     
  22. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Will you still go to your stereo guy? There's a chance that something was bent or left unplugged during the speaker installation (and can be unbent or replugged)... or was this issue present before the speaker installation?

    Anyway, the lock lever microswitches are not too expensive: See item 64.

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    Just a thought. The armrest lock lever is only attached to a microswitch on the later 360's and the F340. On the earlier 360's (up to vehicle assembly number 52139) there is no microswitch, but there is a mechanical linkage to the latch/lock mechanism. This might explain why your 360 lock lever remained up when pulled, but your 430 lever is spring loaded to the down position.

    Experts?
     
  23. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    I'm still confused about the F430 armrest lock lever operation. Can the door be unlocked by pulling this spring-loaded lever a second time? Or does the door unlock simply by pulling on the larger, "open" lever.

    I noticed that the door key has some spring loading in this new Ratarossa video (at time marker 19:22)



    This raises new questions on which microswitches are activated at various key angles.

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    Maximum key angle may only activate one of the 3 microswitches momentarily (before the key returns under spring loading to the mid angle position). This may be the equivalent of pulling on the armrest lock lever?
     
  24. Rosso_United_1999

    Mar 31, 2019
    201
    Manchester, UK
    Door only opens via the large plastic handle.

    The LOCK lever simply clicks the locks closed from inside - interior central locking. Effectively like pushing the key fob button. This prevents anyone opening the doors from outside. That's all it does.

    My window lights are still out.

    This is what I did, if it made any difference to anything:

    - firstly I had the battery off for a day and half via the battery isolator
    - I played with both the driver LOCK lever and the passenger one a bit
    - I probably yanked the door handles a bit too (as all know the door locks on these cars are awful so I can imagine a certain amount of pulling and prodding can be the difference between something working and not)
    - I changed the settings on the dome light from off off to the intermediate setting (then I think I switched them off off again)
    - I pushed in what I think is the sensor on the inside of the door that I imagine talks to the dome lights, or possibly the alarm regarding the position of the door. It's like a little black plastic rod that sticks out. Also springy in nature. It popped back out.
    - I think I pushed the radio "on" button (obviously mine has been disconnected), this probably did nothing at all
    - I also trickle charged the car for a few hours, but I really don't think my battery was at all discharged when I discovered the issue. This isn't a battery issue imo.

    God knows what I did but quite happy to get rid of that particular gremlin!
     
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  25. Mario Andretti

    Mario Andretti Formula 3
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    Aug 9, 2020
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    Low battery can cause all kinds of issues and perks on these cars. If you have a problem, don't chase it until you charged the battery and/or keep it on a charger and make sure voltage is over 13v.
    Electronics are a bit ancient, older components with very low tolerance to voltage variations.
     

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