car design thread | Page 592 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ

    Jun 30, 2007
    10,535
    On a Wave's Chicane
    Full Name:
    Is, Izzy for Australians
    How true. I have older neighbours all around me who universally love the TBird of 2002.

    Kind of surprised the Reatta didn’t make the list based on a similar amount of approval by my local focus group.
     
    330 4HL, energy88 and jm2 like this.
  2. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,985
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    An interesting design from the past......way past. From Dean's Garage.
    Car Craft’s Dream Roadster
    September 30, 20222 CommentsBob Hubbach
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Car Craft’s Dream Roadster
    From Car Craft Magazine, October, 1961

    Drawings and Design by Bob Hubbach and Chuck Pelly



    I saved this article out of a 1961 Car Craft back in 1961 and have kept it since then. I went through my files recently, and noticed and recognized the name Bob Hubbach. This had to be posted.—Gary



    THE CONCEPT BEHIND THE DESIGN of our roadster results directly from the fact that not every custom car enthusiast can find the mint condition ’27-T or Deuce body to start with—therefore we have based our ideas on the feasibility of employing contemporary automotive parts which can be obtained from dealers, wrecking yards, and automotive supply houses.

    The main body panels are from two cars: the front (hood, fenders, grille-work and headlights) are 1960 Pontiac, while the rear section is from a ’60 or ’61 Chevrolet Corvair.

    As shown in the sketches by Bob Hubbach and Chuck Pelly, the hood is sectioned and re-welded to match the Corvair rear end. An extra section of Corvair panel above the body break line is welded to blend with the Pontiac theme. The chassis might be built up from tubing for a light but strong space-frame, or tubing could be used to build up a Ford Falcon frame shortened to an 88-inch wheelbase. The Corvair swing-axle can be used or a limited-slip axle and a 4-speed Corvette gearbox—this could be a real handler!

    Continuing the sports-roadster theme, we’ll pull two of the bucket seat units out of a Corvair Monza Club Coupe, and fill the instrument panels with such goodies as the over-sized tachometer and speedometer made by Smiths for the Triumph TR-3. Otherwise, we’ll go the Stewart-Warner route on instrumentation, with oil and water temperature gauges, gas, oil pressure gauge and ammeter. Several sports car accessory houses are handling aluminum and laminated wood steering wheels that will add a final touch to the interior.

    The racing windscreen is hand-formed, a la Scarab, and the rollbar slides into two tubes which are welded to the frames when used on the track.

    The alterations at the front are as follows: 1960 Buick headlight rings are Frenched, with ‘59 Olds parking lights in the outer rings. The inner rings will receive formed ducting to direct cooling air to the front brakes, and a recessed wire mesh screen will take the place of the lens normally found here. An alternate would be to use all four rings for cooling ducts, with pop-up headlights concealed in the leading edges of the hood, bringing the lights up to a legal 24-inches above the ground.

    With wheel wells cut out to allow the front tires to protrude above the hood, motorcycle fenders could be installed for road use and removed at the strip or track if desired.

    Under the functional air scoop in the hood sits a Buick aluminum V-8 or a Pontiac Tempest 4-banger. The carb set-up is optional. Tuned header pipes exit from behind the front wheel openings and dump into a finned muffler jacket which carries back to a single exhaust pipe on each side. Two rows of 4-inch louvers are punched to straddle each side of the air scoop for additional underhood cooling. Engine cooling is achieved with a wide, chopped radiator and expansion tank, and a finned oil cooler keeps things under control.

    The rear modifications are illustrated and are performed as follows: the rear wheel housing is cut out all the way back, exposing the rear of the tire. Sheet metal is then installed and moulded around to cap off the rough edges. The remaining taillight bezel and lamp may be left stock or altered by Frenching and changing lenses, with early Pontiac or perhaps ’61 Dodge Lancer.

    Nerf bars are added front and rear—’61 T-Bird can be used in front and a handcrafted tube in the rear. The deck lid is removed, and the compartments for luggage and tools are on the sides—a large fuel tank with an upper, open compartment for a spare tire (up to 6.70×15) is to replace what would normally be the trunk, or in the case of the Corvair, the engine compartment. The spare wheel and tire, now exposed, slide into the ring that forms this compartment, using a long-necked gas filler with a quick-fill cap as a center guide. A custom-made Naugahyde tonneau-tarp is snap-mounted around the perimeter of the deck lid opening, and around the inside of the spare tire opening.

    For those who wish some protection from the elements, we have included a coupe model, which uses a fiberglass top, hand formed to fit windshield and some custom-cut glass for a rear window, which may be dropped behind the seats and rolled up like a conventional side window.

    The sides are cut to allow doors as shown in the renderings. These doors may be formed of fiberglass or metal, although we prefer the fiberglass for its lightness. The doors would be fitted with glass and roll- down mechanisms from the Karmann-Ghia Volkswagen.

    The top incorporates a roll bar with two headrests, which drop down from the bar and are adjustable for positioning. The top will always line up correctly, because the roll bar must slide into the opening provided by bracing tubes on each side and clips which secure the racing wind screen. Therefore, variations are possible using the coupe body and roadster windscreen. The roadster should also have a Naugahyde tonneau cover which folds down behind the seats when not performing its role of covering the bucket seats.

    Tires are 6.70×15 at the rear, with a variety of smaller rims and tires for the front. Traction Masters would add extra bite. The overall height of the roadster is a mere 38-inches, while the coupe towers 47-inches from ground to top. Overall length of both is 160-inches.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     

    Attached Files:

    330 4HL, Tenney and anunakki like this.
  3. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 8, 2005
    72,774
    Las Vegas Nevada
    Full Name:
    Jerry
    330 4HL, NeuroBeaker and jm2 like this.
  4. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,985
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    Exactly what I thought!
     
    330 4HL and anunakki like this.
  5. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 22, 2004
    32,053
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Furman
    Not good.
     
    Isobel and jm2 like this.
  6. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 22, 2004
    32,053
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Furman
    Ferrari SP51. What do you guys think? I'm digging it. Flowing lines, good graphics, yeah the carbon fiber at the front is big but I think that's ok.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    27,033
    West of Fredericksburg, VA
    Full Name:
    John
  8. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,985
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    I don't know. It's more complex than what they started with. Like to see it in the metal. We'll leave it at that.
     
    anunakki likes this.
  9. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula 3

    May 12, 2005
    1,551
    Vancouver
    Full Name:
    Rick Bradner
    thought immediately of the Alf.a 75 from early 90s which had a weird kick-up at the C pillar that made it look like had been rear ended.
    this has been in a much worse incident...
     
    Isobel, tritone and jm2 like this.
  10. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    75,881
    Texas!
    Whale Shark
     
    330 4HL and tritone like this.
  11. Isobel

    Isobel F1 World Champ

    Jun 30, 2007
    10,535
    On a Wave's Chicane
    Full Name:
    Is, Izzy for Australians
    Grotesque seems to be their theme these days.
     
    tritone and energy88 like this.
  12. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    27,033
    West of Fredericksburg, VA
    Full Name:
    John
    Maybe they are coming down with the BMW virus?
     
    Isobel, tritone and jm2 like this.
  13. maha

    maha F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2014
    3,402
    dinajpur, bangladesh
    Full Name:
    mahmud
  14. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,985
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    Nice presentation.
     
  15. VigorousZX

    VigorousZX Formula Junior

    Aug 17, 2011
    269
    anunakki, 330 4HL and jm2 like this.
  16. 330 4HL

    330 4HL Formula 3

    May 12, 2005
    1,551
    Vancouver
    Full Name:
    Rick Bradner
    car design for lack of better place - YOYO electric city car.
    these look quite good in dark gray, black, with yellow side panels. The light 'blades' especially are much crisper in person than in photos/video.
    apologies that the video is in Spanish, but it is the most comprehensive description of the 'car'(?)

     
    jm2 likes this.
  17. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,985
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    Former GM designer resurrects his car. From Dean's garage.
    Ron Will’s Phantom Restored!
    October 7, 20221 CommentRon Will
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    The Turbo Phantom Restoration Saga
    By Ron Will

    Check out the first Dean’s Garage post featuring the Phantom.

    This entire restoration was totally unnecessary, until I did something stupid, really stupid. It started when we sold our house in Costa Mesa, California where the Phantom was built, and we were moving to our new home in Laguna Hills. We were in the process of moving all of our stuff in a big U-Haul except for the Phantom 3-wheeler, which was loaded on to a trailer pulled by my El Camino. And here’s the stupid part. I loaded it backwards with the tail into the wind. The nail in the coffin was that I forgot to latch and lock the canopy top down securely. The canopy top is fairly easy to open with strong gas struts that lift it. So, halfway down the 405, on the way to Laguna, we hit a bump in the road, and the giant canopy top slightly bounced just enough to catch wind. It lifted and caught the full force of the wind ripping it completely off the Phantom, sailing in the air like a giant fiberglass and Plexiglas kite. It came down crashing into over a dozen pieces of Plexiglas, fiberglass, aluminum, upholstery and mirrors sliding and tumbling across two lanes of the 405. I saw what happened in the rear view mirror and immediately pulled over.

    Luckily our friends with the U-Haul moving van were right behind and stopped traffic. Everyone ran out and grabbed as many pieces as possible and threw them in the back of the truck. In disbelief we traveled on to the new house. My wife Pat was waiting for us to arrive. When she saw me with the trailer and half the phantom gone, she started crying, knowing that something had gone terribly wrong. We unloaded it and put it in a corner of the new garage where it stayed untouched for years.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Arrows show the largest three pieces of the canopy top ripped off by the wind.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Matt’s American Icon Restoration—1966 Checker Marathon

    At the time I was working as a designer for Subaru in California. Later they moved us to New Jersey for my new job as product planner in their Cherry Hill, US headquarters. The crippled Phantom moved also, staying untouched in our new garage for another 10 years. While in Jersey, my son Matt wanted a car and decided on a 1966 Checker Marathon. We fully restored it outside in the snow and rain converting it into a New York taxicab. It came out great and was featured in the movie “American Gangster,” but that’s another story.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Engine removed for new clutch install

    After finally retiring from Subaru, the Phantom moved again, this time to Arizona in 2006 into an oversized three-car garage. It was finally time to get the Phantom back together. I didn’t realize it would take another 16 years.

    During the governments mileage and handling testing of the Phantom back in the 1980s at Edwards Air Force Base, the clutch was burned out after several 0 to 60 sprints and other performance tests. So, the first order of business was to get that repaired. The Honda Gold Wing 4-cylinder engine was removed and clutch repaired by a good all-around motorcycle repair man, Stu Oltman, at his home shop.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Marvin analyzing the broken Phantom

    But that still left the major problem, a giant canopy top 6.5 feet wide and 6-feet long that was in shattered pieces with some even missing. Another good acquaintance, Marvin Compton was an expert at fiberglass repair and agreed to take on the job.

    Somehow Marvin was able to put the giant jig-saw puzzle back together, while I was getting a knee replacement. It was not perfect, but good enough for me—the car that is. The knee came out good, too. The lesson learned here was, never make a giant canopy piece of fiberglass 6 x 6.5 ft. and expect it to close and always fit the body perfectly. Fiberglass often has a mind of its own and tends to shift around, especially in the way I was supporting and opening it. I’m sure people with any fiberglass car or Mercedes 300 SL with gull wing doors knows what I mean.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Marvin assembled new pieces with the old to complete the canopy.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Phantom ready for Paint

    Marvin did a stellar job considering what he had to work with. So as long as we had to paint the top, let’s paint the whole car a new color. I decided on a bright silver blue, Mercedes Alpine Rain Metallic. I considered a pearl red using Photoshop, but it just didn’t look right to me.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Back Home from the Paint Shop

    So now, all painted and back in my shop I decided to upgrade or install all the items I never had time to do in the original build. Seat belts seemed like a good idea, long overdue. Also the original tiny VW dune buggy disc brakes proved to be totally inadequate. So, Ken Mitson, a manufacturer of auto specialty equipment, came to the rescue with a professional set of custom disc brakes. Thanks, Ken.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Interior Restoration

    The original interior (upper), as a matter of expedience, was covered front to back, side to side and top to bottom with this over plush carpeting that looked like a sheep ready for sheering. It covered a lot of unfinished areas, and in fact was nailed to the raw underneath foam in places. That was all removed and tossed out in trade for a more sophisticated smooth gray auto carpet that was cut and glued to the intricate interior shapes. My patient wife Pat helped with patterns and installation of the new carpet. The exposed body foam was now all sealed with fiberglass for extra body stiffness. To help noise reduction, I added Dynamat sound proofing to the firewall. I had some left over pieces of scrap black leather from my days at Subaru Design and used it to cover new fiberglass armrests and the instrument panel.

    Luckily, with some sort of future premonition, I originally made two sets of Plexiglas windows for the Phantom and was able to replace the ones damaged on the 405.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    How NOT to wire a car

    Originally, I knew I would need a larger fuse box than the one on the motorcycle, so I bought a car fuse box and ran all the Honda and new electronics thru the larger fuse box. Here’s where I got stupid again. I paid no attention to all the different colors of wires coming out of the car fuse box. I would attach a new green wire to a fuse box red wire and then run it up to the front and attach it to a blue wire coming from the accessory or light. I made a tunnel under the car to hold all the wires going from the engine compartment in back to the passenger compartment in front. So a wire going into the tunnel may be one color and come out of the tunnel another color. After 40 years, with no wiring diagram and no memory of what I had done, I was at a total loss and about to lose my mind. Luckily an old Detroit GM friend, Les Talcott with electrical savvy was in the area to help me out. He cleared up most of the major electrical issues, showed me what to do and kept me from going crazy. Bob Ross from Jersey also contributed by sending me new wiring diagrams and moral support.

    All of this new corrected wiring would go into the nose of the car for servo controlled headlight lids, headlights, turn signals, and speakers. Yes, I forgot to tell you that I added a 1980s Panasonic Cockpit Stereo to the underside of the canopy top.

    If I ever would write a manual to repair the Phantom, it would include strange items like: To replace front speakers first remove the headlights. To replace tail light bulbs, first remove the rear tire. Obviously, I did not think all of this through when I designed the car.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Granddaughter Megyn, my Electrician.

    Now at my age, almost 80, it was near impossible to crawl into the nose of the car to make all of these new connections. So, I hired my granddaughter Megyn to make the new connections. She did a great job everything worked great—smart kid.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    I added a 1980s Panasonic Cockpit Stereo to the underside of the canopy top.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    First showing in 40 years at the Hot Wheels Legends Tour, Mesa, AZ.

    What really prompted me to get up off my easy chair and finish the Phantom now was the upcoming Hot Wheels Legend Tour and contest in Phoenix. The national winner gets their car made into a Hot Wheels model. My son Matt helped me do all the heavy lifting during the last six months. We worked up to the night before the show to get the car all together. One small body part is still lost in my garage, but we made it to the show. I did not win, but the real prize for me was finally getting the Phantom all together once again after 40 years since the Orange County 405 disaster.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Unique Phantom Features

    • Mirror Lid Headlight Covers
    • Moveable Front Skirts
    • Under-fender Turn Signal Lights
    • Digital Instruments
    Many Thanks

    I want to wish a hearty thank you to all that helped me put the Phantom back together. I couldn’t have done it without you. Others that helped build the Phantom included Earl Cook, Rich Straman, Mark Kidd, and sorry, a few more names that I can’t remember.

    P.S. If you have a project car sitting in your garage, get to it. It doesn’t get any easier the longer you wait.

    Now if I could only finish my Kellison J-5 kit car.
     
    NbyNW, Schultz, anunakki and 8 others like this.
  18. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 15, 2007
    10,291
    Chicagoland USA
    Full Name:
    Tom Tanner
    I think it is the best looking GS. They took a GS and added as much as they could from a ROMA. The longer nose really does make it look much better. Also with the rear wheel arch humps being more rounded and blended (ROMA)makes the car look shorter than the old version.
     
    NeuroBeaker likes this.
  19. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
    Moderator

    Oct 1, 2008
    38,786
    Huntsville, AL., USA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Meh. Just an overstyled SmartCar copy.

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  20. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
    Moderator

    Oct 1, 2008
    38,786
    Huntsville, AL., USA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Wow, that looks amazing. Utterly beautiful. :cool:

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  21. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,985
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
  22. energy88

    energy88 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2012
    27,033
    West of Fredericksburg, VA
    Full Name:
    John
    Now that we have your attention, here is an amazing video about Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell, tail fins, and lots of chrome. Enjoy!

     
    Schultz, Tenney, JCR and 1 other person like this.
  23. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Aug 19, 2002
    17,985
    michigan
    Full Name:
    john
    ‘58, hateful cars! Retched excess! Beginning of the Mitchell era.
     
    Tenney likes this.
  24. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 16, 2007
    6,571
    Edwardsville, IL
    Full Name:
    Jeff Kennedy
    The way I always heard the story was that the 1958s got the troweled on chrome as a directive from Earl after he had returned from Europe and found out about the 1957 Chryslers. Since GM would be losing the design battle he was going to try fooling the American eye with the glittering chrome instead.
     
    jm2 and energy88 like this.

Share This Page