F40s for sale thread, post them here!

I thought it was legit but what do i know

 

That’s roughly $2.6m for the F40 with fees.

Almost $4m for the Enzo with fees in USD.

It’s just math. Your currency will be worth much less in 10yrs as we will prob have higher average inflation over this decade than last. These are just experiential stores of value now. That part of your net worth dedicated to gold? This is far more fun!!!

 

I have been buying them with this in mind since 2009

 

I knew there was something up with that F40 auction. I was wondering how a car with that kind of history could possibly go for more than twice the price that it sold for just one year ago. Not a good look for Collecting Cars.

 

Aside from whether the bids were legitimate or not, I am shocked that a 2.2m GBP bid did not meet reserve on this car (and yes I can confirm that was the bid), when, as you said, it sold for less than half that 15 months ago. I suppose CC was willing to give the seller the reserves he wanted in order to secure consignment rights to the whole collection, but still...

 

Was it even for sale to begin with? I kept an eye on it during the week and I was in disbelief that the bidding had exceeded £2m GBP with four or five days left to go until the auction ended. I'm trying to get my head around what really went on here because that particular F40 is not worth close to £2.2m GBP, so I can't imagine the owner setting a reserve that was even higher than that (unless he didn't actually want it to sell).

 

With 120 bids and the high bid which is being confirmed as real, do you have any proof something was up with this F40 auction?

Perhaps CC thought the reserve was realistic, this is why you run the auction, to see what happens.

 

Collecting Cars is just a web based auction platform, I use it all the time, basically just like BaT in the USA. I have personally made successful purchases and worked on behalf of many others buying and selling cars on there. I have absolutely no issues with Collecting Cars, its great, I am on there every single day.

Once the auction ends, phone numbers/emails are exchanged - CC debits your credit card for a max of £5000 or £6000 if paying VAT, and you are on your own to make the actual payment, collect the car etc etc. They make a courtesy call to check the transaction is going ok, and that is it. If the buyer and seller don't complain or raise any concerns, that's the last you will hear from CC, they have their small premium (relative on a multi million car) in the bank, job done. There is never a request for proof of the transaction actually taking place, change of ownership, DVLA reg doc's change etc - nothing.

so if you are very very very rich, does £5k expenditure, to set a new world record or a ridiculous above market price on your car actually cost that much?

couple of imaginary scenarios, and by no means am I suggesting any of these are going on here......

* you are obsessed with world records on your car or collection - easy enough to set any record price you want on any car - max cost £5k per car.

* you have a value in mind for your collection and need to prove it - again easy enough - max cost £5k per car.

* you need to put the banks mind a rest, as they are getting twitchy in the current economic cycle about the amount of leverage you have against the asset value of your collection, the bigger the differential between actual value and amount borrowed equals significantly higher interest rates being applied - again easy enough to set what ever value you want to demonstrate.

* you have several other cars of the same typo for sale with dealers / brokers / showrooms - the deals are close to being done with interested parties, but not tipping over the line. You set a new record price for that typo of car on a very public platform (cost £5k) and before you know it, the phone is ringing off the hook to close the deal on the other cars that are offered £400k cheaper - FMO.

There are many many more scenarios, but generally as a rule, especially in the motor trade, don't believe a single thing you are told, read or see - unless you are personally the ring master, and are conducting the orchestra yourself.

 

but what if it sells to a real buyer, I hear you ask?

Well in that case you pop the champagne and celebrate all week long, because you have hooked a big fish that got carried away in the moment of the auction (happens all the time) - your reserves are so high no one will pay that amount - but just say they do - you are laughing all the way to the bank.

 

I don't believe that the car was ever for sale. The high bids all came in at a very early stage of the auction but still failed to meet the bizarrely high reserve. I can only speak for myself but I don't take everything I see on the internet at face value. Do you not think it's possible that there might have been an ulterior motive behind this F40 auction? An attempt to drive market values up? A publicity tool to draw attention to the other cars from the collection that are being auctioned? Mark has made some good points in his post above.

 

I have zero affiliation with CC, meanwhile you’ve suggested that the F40 auction was not real and the 120 bids were made by mates of the owner https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/148799570/ despite the fact that an unaffiliated FChatter has confirmed that he is party to the high bid this proving it was a real auction. Mark, I'm afraid the notion that it was all a big charade just isn't plausible, I think the seller was simply too optimistic with his reserve, how often have we seen that before?

You’ve also said the Enzo will not sell, it appears you were wrong as today CC say it sold https://www.instagram.com/p/CkGCgymIsd3/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= "The 2004 Ferrari Enzo sold as a part of the MWVMNW Collection last night! With an outstanding result of £3,276,005. Our most expensive lot sold to date on Collecting Cars and a massive congratulations to the buyer." I'm inclined to believe them as I have no reason not to, perhaps I’m not as cynical or as much of a conspiracy theorist as some!

I understand all the theories being made above, but none of them are supported by any proof whatsoever. I don’t believe this seller has time for games, he simply wants to sell some cars and CC have a track record of making that happen so they are a natural venue for him, the notion that all these auctions are based on ulterior motives simply isn't plausible, why would CC agree to enter into a contract to prepare/photograph/promote and sell a car publicly under false pretenses and thereby damage their reputation? Makes no economic sense. Also, why would the seller care about driving F40 prices up when he doesn’t have another to sell? I think he simply set the reserve too high, and in any case he knows the car can always sell post-auction as it probably will. As regards the bidding, bids often come in at the early stages, we see this happen with countless auctions, nothing unusual there.

 

Just to clarify, in case this is a reference to my post - I was only confirming that 2,200,500 GBP was the high bid, because I track these sorts of things for all lots and auction sites. I was not confirming the authenticity of the bid nor do I have any personal knowledge of whoever placed it. Apologies if I am misunderstanding you and you are referencing somebody else.

My reservation with calling this auction an attempt to drive up prices via fake bids is that Collecting Cars is a crappy way to do it, by their own design. Unsold lots are delisted from the site right away and can only be found from web searches, or if you already had the URL. Oftentimes the page is deleted entirely, so I wouldn't be surprised if the F40 listing disappears eventually. Even if you have a link to the page and it's still up, the high bid is hidden. So, if the seller or dealer pulls this page up to prove to a potential buyer that the car was bid to 2.2m GBP, they aren't going to be able to show them a result. Classic.com doesn't show high bids on unsold lots for Collecting Cars. Glenmarch and Hammer Price don't cover online auctions at all. SCM nowadays gets high bids from Hammer Price usually, so they're out, too. The only reason we in this thread are even discussing the high bid is because an Fchatter a few posts before me must have watched the auction close, and because I track these things professionally and have built up a whole scheme to collect hidden results like this one. Most people out there are not exposed to the bid result at all - they just see it didn't sell. In short, a dishonest seller would have better luck running a shill auction through another platform.

I maintain my previous positions that a) the high bid was surprisingly high compared to a result 15 months prior on the same example, and b) the fact that it didn't meet reserve is bonkers.

 

We agree about the venue with CC as an effective means to run a shill, that said, sellers are always optimistic, so to me the high reserve isn't too much of a surprise, as regards the high bid, in today's non-conformist world, perhaps somebody really wanted a blue F40 to be different.

 

"77906"? Sold new through the Ferrari dealer in Bari, Radicci?

https://speedmastercars.com/vehicle/ferrari-f40/

 

SVEA S.p.A. in Bari.
(77906 is not an F40).

Marcel Massini

 

Early single-stage original thin paint F40, still has the early car yellow Ferrari wheel stickers.

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Cannot quite read the plate inside engine bay.

 

77986 is not an F40.

Marcel Massini

 

I think the 3rd number is a 5.

 

Ch.no. itself is partly obscured in the relevant photo, but 3rd digit does looks like "9"(?)

https://speedmastercars.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/1-0Q3A7536.jpg

Can't be too many F40s sold new in Bari during 1988?

 

I recall seeing one of two in the Bachman collection with yellow markings and bar coded stickers (may be wrong as my memory is starting to trick me), and I was told that this one was built off the shelf as he was not sure he really was going to get one, much less the last one made. I think however he did get the last one made which is the collections focus I believe. Marcel I'm sure you known Phil and Martha, is this right? Surly you have been to visit the Bachman's in NC.

 

TTBOMK there are two red F40s in that collection.

Marcel Massini