LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

You do realize that producing hydrogen is enormously energy intensive, correct? How would a 3rd world country come by such energy for hydrogen production?

https://afdc.energy.gov/files/pdfs/hyd_economy_bossel_eliasson.pdf
Reference this section:
4. Production of Hydrogen
4.1 Electrolysis Hydrogen does not exist in nature in its pure state, but has to be produced from sources like water and natural gas. The synthesis of hydrogen requires energy. Ideally, the energy input equals the energy content of the synthetic gas. Hydrogen production by any process, e.g. electrolysis, reforming or else, is a process of energy transformation. Electrical energy or chemical energy of hydrocarbons is transferred to chemical energy of hydrogen. Unfortunately, the process of hydrogen production is always associated with energy losses. Making hydrogen from water by electrolysis is one of the worst energy-intensive ways to produce the fuel. It is a clean process as long as the electricity comes from a clean source. But electrolysis is associated with losses. Electrolysis is the reversal of the hydrogen oxidation reaction the standard potential of which is about 1.23 Volts at NPT conditions. But electrolyzers need higher voltage to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen. The over-potential is needed to overcome polarization and ohmic losses caused by electric current flow under operational conditions.


Not to mention the complex and specific manner in which hydrogen fuel-cell cars must be worked on...definitely not ready for the 3rd world..

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1111440_how-do-you-service-a-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-at-a-dealer

 

I agree that hydrogen production is inefficient, was speaking more on the distribution side. From my limited understanding LNG infrastructure can be repurposed to fill hydrogen tanks instead. If I’m not mistaken gas-powered ICE can be converted to hydrogen combustion although I have no idea what the costs or difficulty would be.

Hydrogen is complicated, but blowing a $5k battery on a when median yearly income is less than that seems like a big barrier to EV adoption.

 

See this:
https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2021-08/hyblend-tech-summary.pdf

the hydrogen via natural gas pipelines is not very effective method, and in Africa/India/other such areas, well, it is not going to happen anytime soon.

Converting an existing gasoline to hydrogen, forget it.
https://www.hho-1.com/convert-vehicle-hydrogen-fuel/

https://energynews.biz/converting-gasoline-to-hydrogen-engine/
Is it possible to convert a conventional vehicle to a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle?

Yes, but any mechanical engineer would tell you that the technique is far too costly to justify the effort.

It is also true that to convert an automobile from gasoline or diesel to hydrogen, the engine, the complete fuel supply, and distribution system, the transmission, and the gearbox must all be replaced. To put it another way, the overall cost of the surgery will be larger than the vehicle itself.

Large and high-cost combustion vehicles, such as buses or long-distance trucks, are the only circumstances in which conversion would make sense, although each case would still need to be assessed individually.
(...)
Furthermore, it is preferable not to consider what may happen if we were in an accident and the engine caught fire because the issue that arises is: would the insurance take over if it is discovered that the engine has been modified without the necessary homologation…

 

It looks like most of the links you sent involve adding an HHO generator to convert water to hydrogen on-board (seems unnecessary and inefficient). What I am referencing is a much simpler system similar to LNG cars with re-fillable tanks (filled with H2 or NH3) that are attached to a more or less conventional ICE. NOX emissions are an issue and thermal efficiency is similar to a petrol-powered ICE, but the only hurdles to a conversion that I see (I am no engineer though) would be the fueling + ignition system, compression, and timing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_internal_combustion_engine_vehicle

This is pretty much what I’m talking about^

 

I know what you meant...but, it's not really going to be happening..

Here is a company that tried to focus on it...but, nothing:

https://www.turnerholdings.co/

I will tell you it would be very difficult and expensive to convert and then you have no fuel...so what is the point?

 

But where could this engine come from ?

 

It's a baby Ferrari, an entry level, so it wouldn't need to make more than 500 HP if it only weighs around a ton. A modern 3.5 litre NA V6 could more than produce that amount.
As for costs, they wouldn't be anywhere near as high as you suggested. Ditch all the stupid electronics (ABS, ESP, E-diff, power steering etc) and the wiring necessary for those to work and you save a lot of weight. The engine would weigh no more than 100 kg or so, and you could reach the target I set.
Imagine this lineup from Ferrari:
1. entry level car - 500 HP from a NA V6 - 1100 kg curb weight
2. mid level car - 700 HP from a NA V8 - 1200 kg curb weight
3. GT car - 800 HP from a NA V12 - 1300-1400 kg curb weight
4. SUV - 700 HP total from a TT V6 + electric motors - 1500/1600 kg curb weight
5. SF90 Stradale - TT V8 + electric motors
6. HYPERCAR - 1100 HP from a 5 litre NA V10 - 1000 kg curb weight.

**** the regulators, they can be dealt with.

But the V10 was more iconic and it weighs less.

It's only rubbish if you are a bad/poor driver. No McLaren F1 driver has ever complained about it.
The central driving position is the one that gives you the most visibility, and the only one that allows you to fully feel the racing sensation.

 

You are just being disingenuous. The 296 is effectively the F8's successor. The entry level car is the Portofino and even that one has 620 CV. An F8 successor would need to have about 800 CV, 500 CV is so 2004 (F430)... For the last time, you cannot ditch ABS, ESP etc, THEY ARE MANDATORY BY THE LAW! Power steering is also essential even F1 cars have them nowadays. Have you driven a car without power steering? The E-diff is pure magic, you definitely need that. There is no chance that you can drop to 1000 kg without having a Murray T50 price tag.

Blah...

Really? You will send them letter bombs?

Actually the V12 is the most iconic. Perfectly balanced, can rev higher, has a higher pitched sound and has been Ferrari's icon since the start.

Disingenuous again. How on earth are you going to overtake on a B Road, if you can't see if there is incoming traffic? By the way, race cars (prototypes, GTs etc) do not have central diving positions (single seaters excluded obviously since there is only one position in them).

 

From LMH project ?

 

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fcat member ale75 posted this on autopareri...
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testing started in july 22

 

Very curious to see the concept of this car.
À Valkyrie lookalike car ?
Or something between a Laferrari and a pure race car ?

 

I'd love for Ferrari to make a similar car to the Valkyrie

 

I’m subbed to the guy’s patreon but it feels disrespectful to post what he said here behind his back.

 

i don't know whom you're talking about but i mentioned my source and it was a free source. i'm just sharing the info here with fellow fchatters and i can feel how a little drop of information about the next hypercar could bring great joy to them. at-least i am not selling some-ones leaked data to others.....

 

I feel like you interpreted my comment as an accusation, it’s wasn’t meant that way. All I was saying is I’m subbed to this guy (Varryx) on Patreon where he posted the same thing without the blurred part. I was just contemplating if posting that would be ok or not.

 

He posted the above on his instagram for all to see. That makes it public info as far as I'm concerned and so reposting is kosher. Blurred bits were done by Varryx himself., not fchatter Maha.

 

You must delete these tables which have nothing to do on a public forum

 

Please realize is NO SOURCE in your post, just a non-clickable screenshot without attribution, leaves it wide open where it came from...(or who blurred what)

Maha, it is so much better when you always include your source (weblink)...it would make it much clearer where you found your postings...and eliminate all confusion. I have requested you do this in the past and sometimes I add to your posting with the source material (weblink)...(such as a random image from an electric engine patent application).

 

They were first posted here:

https://www.autopareri.com/forums/topic/72145-ferrari-hypercar-coupé-aperta-e-fxx-2024-prj-f250-spy/?&page=11#comments

and it has already been picked up by car news websites, too late for this image it seems...

 

People have no limits these days, it's sad

 

ok in this case it's quite clear who posted what so it seemed unnecessary to post the link. and the Instagram-story screen-shot was taken by me. so......

 

I think you can start performing more EXOR-cisms soon

BTW I really appreciate any real data shared by users, to not rely just on opinions shared by others. Thx @maha !

So, F250 is the next hypercar code-name? And it will be revealed exactly 2 years after the LMh F255? (Oct 2024 - Oct 2022)
If so, I really fear that it will be only "a half of a car" ( a V6)

 

The real question is will the F250 be a multi-million$ car with a V6 Turbo Hybrid (speculation on what it will be), when is the last time Ferrari had a hypercar without a V12, much less one with a V6 (never), will it be interesting to see how the top clients react to such a result, especially if the eventual SP4, SP5 include a V12 as each would appear during the build out of the F250...

 

I'm more interested in the concept rather than the cylinder count. If it's a relatively lightweight (compared to laf) and aero-focused track monster (like the gt3 rs concept) then all is good. If It has a fixed wing like F40 and F50 it will be even better.
Leave elegantly designed V12s to the icona range.
Hypercar needs to be hyper in performance too.