Let's not get bogged down with reading third-hand anecdotes from your little magazine collection, Valentino will speak for himself on film to set the record straight, meanwhile none of this changes the fact that all your angst is because of the simple fact that what you really want is a Downdraft. Image Unavailable, Please Login
There is zip inconsistent about my 25th thread, I still post there more than anyone because it's a car I still appreciate. If you can afford it, go ahead and buy the car at Curated and put yourself out of your misery, I caution testing it against your Fuelie until you get that jacked-up rear suspension fixed for safety reasons, meanwhile, either we give you the benefit of the doubt and believe the trolling nonsense you typically spout off including your post "I'd love to own a DD", or everything you say here is meaningless, you decide which. Image Unavailable, Please Login
???? I for shure would love to own one of every model ever made from Lamborghini, incl the dd, I feel very fortunate to own ,at least one variant. Your post makes absolutely no sense.
Great that you too would like to own a Downdraft, but sorry, my post is actually in response to his recent claims he would never wish to own a Downdraft, and his claim just one page ago that the Downdraft was "antiquated garbage", as such, my post makes perfect sense.
Joe, I wouldn’t waste your breath. Anyone who truly believes a Countach downdraft is “antiquated garbage,” preferring a fuelie over that beast, will NEVER get it. Or perhaps he has never seen/driven one in person? That could be another explanation.
Or the other way around. “Beast” have plenty of meanings. I will have my countach pulling clean and crisp from 0- hard on. Perfect. Our 52 cat with quad 1350 hp is a beast
This stuff has made me not follow the board as much unfortunately. I wonder who else frequents less as a result too? It used to be fun but people’s perceived butthurt (that’s how others view these type posts) has turned things into a pissing match constantly at every turn. (Gold chain crowd??) People are just telling facts and you just won’t let it go!!!!!!!! Valentino’s a Lamborghini ambassador, he tells the history truthfully it seems but having met him multiple times you ask him about cars you own and he will sing praises as any good steward of a brand would. Maybe just accept the facts because high dollar cars in true collector world are factory UNMODIFIED versions. I can see F40 Euro cars rising in value and demand in the USA even with miles compared to their USA specific models now that they are 25 yrs. why? Cause they are 250lbs lighter faster better looking without DOT apedages and are just the way ENZO homself intended. People value that. Who cares what Italian HP Lambo added in some tests if true. That’s really not what this argument has ever been about. Just go enjoy your car, cause it’s very very evident you can’t stand the DD as a pinnacle Supercar of all time..... values aside they are just a superior experience visually audibly and in driving. This is not to say the FI cars are not incredible but at this point it’s like talking to a wall. Why is the special color with special interior DD still available? Other than a finicky ex owner and some thc needed I think it’s one of the Best Buy’s you can find in the Lambo world at the moment.
Vince, believe me, they get it, they just cant admit it and yes, it is worth noting that none of the 3 stooges has ever owned & driven & maintained a Downdraft, so their protestations are wholly biased and without merit as they have zero first-hand comparable experience. Lamborghini's Chief Engineer during the period of the QV's production Ingegnere Luigi Marmirolli was responsible for both the Fuelie and the Downdraft engines, and he told me directly when I interviewed him on the record for the 2017 Classic & Sports Car magazine Countach article that the factory’s position was that the Fuel-Injected engine was the emissions engine, whilst the Carbureted engine was the performance engine. He gave me all the car's technical specification sheets and DGMs which I still have. Note that the factory continued to use the Carbureted engine after the Downdraft for the Countach 25th for Europe and the Rest-of-the World, through to the very last 25th it built in 1990, which it retained in it’s Museo. The Carbureted engine was more powerful and had a performance advantage over the Fuel-injected unit, more significantly than reported officially. This is underscored by the fact that the engine unit used for the Carbureted cars contains higher-compression ratio pistons and more aggressively lobed camshafts. Not only has this been photographically documented and calibrated by various specialists during rebuilds post-production, the factory’s own parts manual documents separate parts numbers for the higher-performance pistons and camshafts in the carbureted engine unit. TBH I enjoy discussing this stuff and when my name is mentioned or I am referred to, I'm only too happy to come over to this thread and explain. A perfect example of a post that actually makes no sense. Meanwhile, the fact is, the Downdraft pulls at least as smoothly from zero as a Fuelie and a lot more strongly, to prove the point, you saw a carbureted Downdraft easily triumph over a fuel-injected TR in a drag race on the Grand Tour TV show tonight. Rich don't be dissuaded in the least. For me it has the opposite effect because the protestations only underscore that championing the cause of the Downdraft is both important & worthwhile, that's why there is so much fuss over it by those who don't have one, added to this, I personally find it immensely satisfying to protect truths & fact as it relates to the car's history, specification, and performance. I recall joining FChat 13 years ago and over the years I've seen some notorious trolls come & go, it's a matter of remaining firm to one's beliefs. Bear in mind that the dissenters are very much in the minority, besides the 3 stooges, nobody else believes the BS. Just read between the lines and you'll see there is still and will always be interesting & valuable information posted upon any number of these thread here every day. Hope you are well.
All is going swimmingly as I hope things are with you as well. I will be out that way in the next months and hope to finally get a ride in the wonderful DD you currently steward. Last time the weather didn’t cooperate so fingers crossed!!! Just keep it up Joe, fact based learning is the best way to learn.... everything else is just noise, albeit distracting and unnecessary. I would encourage anyone of the naysayers to go buy Curateds DD. It is special and would be a very smart trade, and or acquisition for any Countach/supercar enthusiast. Like the Mimran car, someone just needs vision to see the true long term value there.
Good post . All variants are great,i Love the dd as much as you,in fact i love them all, mine is an fi,wich i love a lot, my beast comment vas not to be taken too seriously,beeing beast ,i guess means different things to different people.I say this becuase we have been praising The Countach for its ease of driving and operating despite the "Experts"out there telling us how horrible it is to drive,poss people never driven one, again i love your enthusiasme, keep it up.
Sorry my post placed in the wrong place, anyway,here we go,455 hp 5,2 liters,versus 3.9 litres 380 hp, would this not be the way it should,or am i missing some basic laws of physics? Actually ,i think the Countach could have done better if a fresher car had been used, who knows how many ponies lost after 3 decades and lots of miles. Reg the TR,i probably got more seat time than most in this car,my commuter to work for 3 years and 30k or so miles, great car,very few problems(fuel pump left side, ign coil, and misc ac issues) got spanked by souped up Mustangs on a reg basis at stoplights,(so did my 6,0 Diablo on occasion) all this beeing said, My QV fi is sooooooo much quicker than the TR,thanks for reminding me on the Grand tour,
You know that I am never affected by trolls as I realize that in the current online age they are a fact of life, you just have to learn to see the wood for the trees, so no worries, I plan to continue to disseminate accurate & fact-based, useful, fun information about Countachs. I think in the past year or two, there has been much progress in that regard. That said, so long as the 3 stooges keep referring to me and thus inviting me to come over here for a lively debate to underscore how much better the Downdraft is than the Fuelie, I'm only too happy to accept their invitation and get settled in Absolutely, it would be my pleasure to take you out in the Mimran Countach Downdraft, at your disposal. Yes, the Rosso Speciale Downdraft is indeed a very nice play, I know a number of people who are eyeing it as we speak. The Grand Tour proved absolutely nothing for Fuelie Countachs whatsoever, a Downdraft was used.
the key word is QV, injected or carbed, by now the world know these cars where buildt side by side,different zip codes,reverse the bumpers innstall factory headers,the fi would have poss beat this dd,beeing it got better tourqe out of the corners.
Once-upon-a-time long gone, it was true that people thought there was no difference between the Downdraft and Fuelie variants of the QV, in fact, some people, like you, bought a Fuelie for cheap thinking it was pretty much 'the same as' the Downdraft, but in the last 3 years we have made made sure that all the technical data and relevant information that highlights the differences has been disclosed and shared @ this venue https://lamborghinichat.com/forum/threads/countach-downdraft.503457/ and a number of other prominent venues, with more to come. To pretend that they are all the same though is rather disingenuous on your part, because, you really are aware there is a difference, so much so that you were actually moved sufficiently to start a completely separate thread called "DD versus FI" https://www.lamborghinichat.com/forum/threads/dd-versus-fi.509479/ , surely the best and AFAIK the only thread you ever started to date, it makes for fascinating reading, and is a treasure-trove of information if you read the posts from the people that matter who have experience and present real data with supporting images & illustrations. I recommend a re-read. Anyone who owns any Countach knows that the casually tossed-about notion by Fuelie owners that all you have to do is simply "reverse the bumpers" is a pipe dream, as they know that to do this you are faced with a significant and fairly expensive project if done right, after which, you end up with what is essentially a 'resto-mod' which is still never be anywhere close to a Downdraft. Like I have said before, the only way you make a Fuelie be 'the same as' a Downdraft, is to fully restore it to 100% European spec complete with a Downdraft engine. Trying to convince anyone that the Fuelie and the Downdraft are the same is like saying Heidi the Pie-eating Queen of Kansas and Sofia Vergara are 'the same' after all, they are both women. We recently did some cost-calculations for a client who was deciding on what type of Countach to buy, and, given current acquisition costs of a Downdraft today, it made far more sense to him to just go ahead and step up and buy a Downdraft, than spend the rest of his life wishing he had done that in the first place if only he had spent more money. Guess what he bought? With these cars set to increase their values and value deltas between the Downdraft and the Fuelie set to increase in upcoming years, there is no question what the astute buy going forward is. The notion that a hypothetical Fuelie would have possibly beat the TR in the Grand Tour is just another wacky opinion supported by absolutely no data or facts whatsoever, meaningless as some might say, especially as it's based on a false claim that will soon be refuted in an upcoming publication in the right venue by the very person whose name was used to perpetuate it. This'll be supported by side-by-side comparisons of standard Fuelie and Downdraft engines accurately engine dynoed on-the-bench with graphs illustrating same as below. By the way, the power (bhp) numbers @ 6,750 rpms & torque (lb.ft) numbers @ 5,500 rpms paint a very clear picture and I can tell you that both power and torque are significantly superior throughout the measured rev range from 3,000 rpms upwards in the 6 Weber (44 DCNF) carburatori version of the L 507 V4 engine, and this is proven. Mike Call was right about the power differences as he suggested in the "DD versus FI" thread which you so kindly started. Incidentally, maximum power in the Fuelie engine drops off just after 6,000 rpms, whereas the Downdraft engine gains power all the way up to 6,750 rpms. The torque curve of the Downdraft engine not only scores higher numbers at every benchmark of engine revolution, it's increase is more linear providing irrefutable proof that the Downdraft has better torque at every stage of the power band. Whereas the torque curve of the Fuelie engine flattens above 4,500 rpms and then progresses to 5,500 rpms, the trajectory of the Downdraft is more linear and bell-shaped which is exactly what you want for superior performance. What does all this underscore? The fact that the Downdraft engine is significantly more potent than the Fuelie's as the Lamborghini's Chief Engineer himself Image Unavailable, Please Login
Again you are missing the point. I do not know any fuelie owner trying to make their cars inn to a dd. If i wanted a dd, i would simpley buy one. I love my fuelie. And beeing a Contach from the Italian “countach factory” such as your Countach. Qv engine and all, i simpley want it to perform and look as good as possible ,no need to explaine how this is done. Its been done over and over. Fast forward. Its an amazing machine. Buildt next to yours. In Italy 4 valve big v12. Made in . For the record Vargara. I think is Mexican. While your circus queen(must be a fettish) sounds Not very Mexican. Lol. But agreeably both woman.
Just read your comment reg the fi beating the Tr, not shure where this is going,or perhaps a typo? The qv carbed version beat the tr in the tv show,now the qv fi (as in Bosch Porsche Ferrari bla bla) with carbed style exhaust and no cats, will not beat the tr? I will leave this one for each and their own. Back to the QV our mighty v12 ,At the end of the day ,this bickering will and can only end once 2 properly tuned cars ,factory headers,no cats,etc are put thrue the grinders on the real Dyno,yes exactly THE ROAD/ track switch drivers unbiased,will not be easy to find such combination of cars and personalities,fair non partisan,but poss one day it will happen. Have a nice day taking my family boating,all 24 cyl 96 valves of it.
I am firmly on-point as you cannot deny, the anthem or the futile wolf-cry of certain Fuelie owners yourself included is that the are all "the same" therefore you seek to try make us believe that the Fuelie is as potent as the Downdraft when in fact it is not nearly. Perhaps you are right, my analogy using the aforementioned ladies could have been better presented. Let me try again in simpler terms I know you will understand: Suggesting that the Fuelie and the Downdraft are the same is like saying $250,000 and $500,000 are the same because they are both money. No typo by me and no bickering by Downdraft owners, just a measured presentation of facts, and with the passing of time everyone becomes more enlightened.
The 3sq ft front hood? In 80s crappy Polyester? Some duude in a shead next door rolled and brushed it in a mold next to his composit train station rain covers,and public thrash cans,wich he produced for the Goverment.(be careful with the word composit.might not be as exotic as you think) also the Kevlar combo,in a 3 sq ft panel,with its shrinking and sensitivity to temratures,in combination with cheap polyester?in exposed car body panels,the infamous weave exposure in your Comeposit hood,is nothing but lack of knowledge, i will bet you the Aluminum version came inn later as a proper fix to an embarrasing product.There is a reason this never caught on, Kevlar and 80 s polyester lol ,i will take my Aluminum version(wich is a material the Italians actually are famous for) all day long,
No disrespect,still do not understand your fi versus tr comment, very unlogical to me,beeing the dd beat the tr, and the fi will run with the dd if both equipped with similar exhaust and no cats, i am clearly missing something here, then again,so do you, all good as we say. No reason at this point to continue this conversation,go out,drive your car, i will drive mine, enjoy life,we had an amazing weekend on the water,dog,teenagers,kids,tons of horsepower,fun fun. I am shure you are soaking it inn, in so Cal, again Enjoy.
Its called new technology...... it’s called pioneering..... it’s like anything in its infancy, they did the best they could with what they had and knew at that point in time. It dates the car and the industry. And yes composite is the word because it is composed of multiple materials even if polyester was used for pants in the same era. According to Valentino the DD dances sooooooo I’m all for a nice set of polyester clothes for the cars I guess.... It seems more likely going to a stamped aluminum hood that takes a few minutes to construct only fixed on thing. Labor and material costs. You would probably think hammer marks on old racecar aluminum panels is an embarrassing product too. I call both of these techniques pure unadulterated art in the most Italian fashion. Bellisimo!!! I think you should go buy the Rosso Speciale car, I really do.
Totally agree on the old craftmanship war scars,i love them as much as you. That beeing said, 80 s polyester and Kevlar is not one of those proud moments,agreeably a nice try,but not one for the history books. Old Italian Aluminum fabricating is Amazing,one of the reasons i own my car, we do a fair amount of aluminum inn house,(nothing close to the old Italian Cars) but brackets and such. Anyway,thanks for suggesting the burgundy car at Curated, I already have a qv,(and as you probably have guessed by now,shocker lol the carb thing does not do it for me,each on their own,totally respect the opposite, ) if getting another Countach in my camp,it would be an unflared car, or poss an Anniversary. But thanks for the advice, poss a car for you? You seem to have a passion for it? Also beeing a carbed car,might be a good opportunity for you.
I was being facetious on the DD, we all know it’s not for you. It seems like the first attempted composite materials used in the auto industry would be exactly the thing for the history books? Or is history just a fictitious rendition of the truth according to who one talks to? Hello walls.
